Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 13:06:47 +0200
From: "Rogier Mulhuijzen" <rogier.mulhuijzen@...ice.casema.nl>
To: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@...tools.org>, "Gadi Evron" <ge@...uxbox.org>
Cc: "Int3" <yashks@...il.com>, <bugtraq@...urityfocus.com>
Subject: RE: Defeating Citibank Virtual Keyboard protection using screenshot method

The point Yash is trying to make is that the Virtual Keyboard doesn't
give any protection from malware. And the idea behind the Virtual
Keyboard is that it protects you from malware like keyloggers.

Gadi pointed out in his first email that this is not really new, and
that there's other ways that don't even require taking screenshots. 

So there's no threat without code installation, but the virtual keyboard
is supposed to defeat code installations.

I'm surprised that banks use such simple things as passwords. Banks here
in the Netherlands use things like one-time PINs, and challenge/response
stuff that uses your chipped bank card. Seems a little safer to me.

Cheers,

	Rogier

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@...tools.org]
> Sent: woensdag 9 mei 2007 23:20
> To: Gadi Evron
> Cc: Int3; bugtraq@...urityfocus.com
> Subject: RE: Defeating Citibank Virtual Keyboard protection using
> screenshot method
> 
> Without getting into SMTP latency comparisons...
> 
> Perhaps I missed something, but where is the threat demonstrated sans
> code installation?
> I'm not trying to disparage anyone's work, but as you yourself pointed
> out, there is nothing demonstrated here that doesn't qualify as common
> malware.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gadi Evron [mailto:ge@...uxbox.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:42 PM
> To: Jim Harrison
> Cc: Int3; bugtraq@...urityfocus.com
> Subject: RE: Defeating Citibank Virtual Keyboard protection using
> screenshot method
> 
> On Wed, 9 May 2007, Jim Harrison wrote:
> > Granted, it's an interesting methodology, but until you can
> demonstrate
> > circumvention of the CitiBank keylogger without installing code on
the
> > victim host, a threat is not indicated and cannot be taken
seriously.
> 
> Even though I was the first to point out this is old news for the
> malware
> scene in online/e fraud, I'd be the first to bow down before Int3 and
> say
> "thank you for sharing your work with us". Many don't.
> 
> But your point above:
> "without installing malware on the victim host"
> 
> Although true on some level, is bogus for the purpose of this work, as
> it
> being written makes an automatic assumtion on working only after
malware
> is installed.
> 
> Although you are right, in practice this is already an heavily abused
> technology, and..
> 'Getting malware on a system', who ever heard of such a ridiculous
> idea? :)
> 
> 	Gadi.
> 
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Int3 [mailto:yashks@...il.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:14 AM
> > To: Jim Harrison
> > Cc: bugtraq@...urityfocus.com
> > Subject: Re: Defeating Citibank Virtual Keyboard protection using
> > screenshot method
> >
> >
> > This is not malware, it will only help people to experiment and see
> the
> > result without writing one for themself.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Yash K.S
> >
> > On 5/9/07, Jim Harrison <Jim@...tools.org> wrote:
> >
> > 	(copied here without permission)
> > 	Step by Step Demo:
> >
> > 	- Download POC from http://tracingbug.com/downloads/citihook.zip
> > <http://tracingbug.com/downloads/citihook.zip>  and
> > 	unzip to some directory
> > 	- Launch citihook.exe, this will watch only
> > 	https://www.online.citibank.co.in/ URL
> >
> > 	Effectively, "Let me install my malware on your machine to
> > demonstrate
> > 	how vulnerable it is."
> >
> > 	P-p-p-p-p-p-leeeze (three anti-social points for that quote)!
> > 	The "problem" ceases to be a vulnerability at this point.
> >
> > 	-----Original Message-----
> > 	From: yashks@...il.com [mailto:yashks@...il.com]
> > 	Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 3:03 AM
> > 	To: bugtraq@...urityfocus.com <mailto:bugtraq@...urityfocus.com>
> >
> > 	Subject: Defeating Citibank Virtual Keyboard protection using
> > screenshot
> > 	method
> >
> > 	Severity: Critical
> >
> > 	Platforms Affected:
> >
> > 	Microsoft Corporation: Windows 98 Any version
> > 	Microsoft Corporation: Windows Me Any version
> > 	Microsoft Corporation: Windows XP Any version
> > 	Microsoft Corporation: Windows 2000 Any version
> > 	Microsoft Corporation: Windows 2003 Any version
> > 	Microsoft Corporation: Windows NT 4.0 Any version
> > 	Citi-Bank: Citi-Bank Virtual Keyboard Any version
> >
> > 	Browsers:
> > 	Microsoft Internet Explorer Any version
> > 	Mozilla FireFox Any version
> > 	Any browser runs on Win32 platform ( With slight modification )
> >
> > 	Original URL :
> > http://www.tracingbug.com/index.php/articles/view/23.html
> >
> > 	Regards,
> > 	Yash K.S <yashks@...il.com > | www.tracingbug.com
> >
> > 	All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.
> >
> 
> 
> All mail to and from this domain is GFI-scanned.



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