From: hagbard-celine at hushmail.com (hagbard-celine@...hmail.com)
Subject: Re: Ka's msg re: Bugtraq delay/censorship


Someone said:

>Interesting post, especially towards the end.

8) I'll send you five tons of flax via PayPal. 8)

>>On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 07:19:31PM -0700, hagbard-celine@...hmail.com >>said:
>[snip]
>> The "underground", regardless of how it is
>> perceived or how it chooses to portray some 
>> elements of itself, is alive and kicking - same 
>> as it ever was even in the days of L0pht,
>> root.org, and folks like Ice9. 
>
>
>Real hackers today are doing exactly the same thing they've been doing >for the last 40+ years - hacking. Creating. Exploring and learning. >Sometimes the only way to learn about something is to break it, or >break into it. The latter was true in older days, when a lot of >systems were inaccessible to the average joe. It's getting less and >less true as time goes by and computer systems and networks become >more ubiquitious and affordable.

Agreed.

>Real hackers are out there hacking. Not talking trash on IRC all day >long,pretending they're gangstas from the ghetto and trying to break >into each others' systems. Hackers are hacking, not wasting their time >sitting around doing nothing. "But I'm a hacker!", someone will >undoubtedly protest. "I break into systems - hacking is only about >breaking into systems and/or causing damage!" Maybe in your lexicon. 

Not in my lexicon, either. I grok the rage emanating from
the PHC, mind you, but my gig isn't their gig. I can see
part of their point(s), though. A friend of mine long ago had an
old A-Bomb warning sign that he carefully and professionally
altered to say "Shellout Falter". iDefense created exactly
that, but in a new way.

>Real hackers are creating things - have you created anything lately? >If the answer is no, you should try it. It's ultimately more >satisfying than an army of DDoS zombies or yet another IRC channel >under control of your bots.

I create, rest assured. There's the "visible spectrum" of
the underground, and there's...other stuff happening. Same as it
ever was. ;) I doubt those responsible for this most recent
pissing contest would understand the true significance
of jsz@....ac.il, but that doesn't mean their overwrought message
is void of validity, either. We were all young once, and impervious.

As for IRC, another friend calls it "the great electronic wasteland",
and rightly so.

>The underground is definitely still alive, as always - you were right >on with that post. But you're not too likely to find real hackers (as >in our predecessors from MIT, and in later days, the crews like l0pht >and cDc)idling all day long on IRC or threatening death and >destruction. And the real blackhats, on the other hand, are out there >stealing information, breaking into banks and governmental networks, >working for organized crime and corporate espionage sections - you >won't find them hanging out on IRC bragging about channel takeovers >and the like, either.

Spot on. I am your servant, sir.

>> But I wonder if the time has come to begin 
>> construction of Gibson's "Walled City" (see his 
>> novel "Idoru") or Stephenson's "Metaverse" (from 
>> his "Snow Crash") and totally unplug from
>> the made-for-TV tragedy called "The Taming of 
>> the 'Net"...just a thought...
>
>
>Have you by chance read Tad Williams' series "Otherland"? If you >liked "Snow Crash" or Gibson, you should _definitely_ read it. Book >one is called "City of Golden Shadow". 

Thanks - I will grab it ASAP. 8)

>All I can say is, I'm pretty sure construction efforts on the pre->alpha versions of what will eventually become the 'Metaverse' are >already underway. 

Good. It's time.

>I just hope that hackers will be able to keep it free and open, as >they did with the Internet (another government-funded project). As 
>for jacking into it, well ... you might be interested in the cover >story from this month's _Wired_. I had no idea brain implant 
>technology had progressed this far - this is lifted straight from 
>'The Matrix' ...
>http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.09/vision.html

It will be free and open as long as there's no economic
gain to be had from it. As soon as the RIAA, MPAA, Chiat/Day,
the FBI, CIA, and MIC KEY MOUSE think there's an eyeball
in need of a advert, or a covert, or a covert advert, it'll be 
time to roll out Version 2...

As for the Wired article, I have a copy of the latest edition
in front of me. "Did you turn up the resolution?" "No, that's
your brain learning to see." I didn't think I'd live to 
witness it.

>
>(Sorry about that rant - what started out as a 3-line reply ended up >going on longer than I intended.)

Like I don't rant, too? *chuckle*

>And with that, I will stop posting and get back to whatever the current
>project was.

Many thanks. All comments well-received at this end.

>cheers,

And 23skidoo to you, too.

HC

-----
"Communication is only possible among equals."




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