From: cheekypeople at sec33.com (Lee)
Subject: Anti-MS drivel

To move any kind of new system, network, office systems, email...takes time
and money.
While there are better options for everything we do, the simple fact of ROI
and IT becoming the service industry it was always destined to be, causes
alot of folk to re value, and alot of the time make do, or spend less on
migration.

I look after a 10,000 user network, now if I make one simple change to a
template or how folks work, I have to think of support costs, training
costs, and loss of business and work rate due to the new system being in
place, and thats just for starters.

To move people to the next version of something is still hard, but incurrs
less cost (well you would think hehehe) but anyways, my point is, having all
the answers in my mind doesnt make my busines run better, Facts figures and
a sound plan and even then I would have to turn in down, due to the cost of
just getting those figures and plan hehehe

Have to base my decision on business not IT, as they are the ones that pay
for it.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Gale" <michael@...esuperman.com>
To: <full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Anti-MS drivel


>
> HAHHHAHAH
>
> --snip--
> > Business on the other hand is moving slowly to Linux.  Why slowly?
> > Who do you sue when your business is hacked by someone who planted a
> > backdoor in the Linux kernel?  Won't happen you say?  Let's see,
> > almost happened once already . . .
> --snip--
>
> Oh please ... did you read the wed site or did a friendly who knows how
> to read explain it. The site says a public DB that offers TEST and BETA
> kernels was attacked. It also says that the intrusion was caught which
> would suggest that this was a unsuccessful attack.
>
> I like how you point out one unsuccessful attack on linux but leave out
> thousands of successful working and money costing Microsoft windows
> problems.
>
> Michael.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:47:44 -0500
> "James Patterson Wicks" <pwicks@...gen.com> wrote:
>
> > Microsoft has competition.  Apple, Sun, Red Hat . . .
> >
> > Problem is Apple is full of idiots who feature style over substance.
> > The system has to look better than it performs.  They want people to
> > pay a premium to make it seem that their products are for the elite
> > only. The OS is more stable than Microsoft, but their elitist attitude
> > will always keep them at 5% market share.
> >
> > Sun's Java should be the market leader, but they don't have the cash
> > to take on the 800 pound gorilla that is Microsoft.  Java is on
> > running Spirit, the rover that is on Mars right now.  Imagine if
> > Spirit had a Microsoft OS running it.  Right after touchdown on Mars,
> > you see the first image of the landscape and then . . . .  BLUE SCREEN
> > OF DEATH!! Sorry, but the guy from the Help Desk can't just stop by
> > and reboot it this time.  Even NASA is not crazy enough to trust a
> > billion dollar project to a Microsoft OS.
> >
> > Linux is just not ready for prime time.  By prime time I mean on the
> > homes of the American public.  Regular home consumers don't want to
> > have to learn a new language to use e-mail or play games.  They want
> > to be able to update a security hole without having to compile
> > something. Linux needs an interface like OS X and a software library
> > to back it for"normal" people to be interested.
> >
> > Business on the other hand is moving slowly to Linux.  Why slowly?
> > Who do you sue when your business is hacked by someone who planted a
> > backdoor in the Linux kernel?  Won't happen you say?  Let's see,
> > almost happened once already . . .
> >
> > Linux kernel suffers Trojan horse hack -
> > http://www.silicon.com/software/os/0,39024651,39116796,00.htm
> >
> > Microsoft threw an incomplete, insecure computer solution at an eager
> > market for a low price, so home users and businesses lapped it up.
> > Ever since Windows 95, home computing and Microsoft are nearly joined
> > at the hip.  It will take time to break Microsoft's nine-year hold,
> > but it's going to take more than OS X and the current Linux offerings
> > to do it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
> > [mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of Edward W.
> > Ray
> > Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 12:38 PM
> > To: 'Mary Landesman'; 'David F. Skoll'; tlarholm@...x.com
> > Cc: bugtraq@...urityfocus.com; ntbugtraq@...tserv.ntbugtraq.com;
> > full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
> > Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Anti-MS drivel
> >
> > Mary:
> >
> > Cisco at least has competition.  Juniper Networks has about a 25%
> > share of
> > the router market, which keeps Cisco honest.  Microsoft has almost
> > market
> > penetration at the desktop for both the home and business.  IMHO, they
> > deserve all the anti-MS drivel people can dish out.  I will tire of it
> > when
> > I don't have to spend an hour each month clearing my firewall logs of
> > attempted Code Red and Nimda infection attempts
> >
> > Edward W. Ray
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
> > [mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of Mary
> > Landesman
> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:55 AM
> > To: David F. Skoll; tlarholm@...x.com
> > Cc: bugtraq@...urityfocus.com; ntbugtraq@...tserv.ntbugtraq.com;
> > full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
> > Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Re: January 15 is Personal Firewall
> > Day, help
> > the cause
> >
> > That's pretty much like teaching your kids to never talk to strangers,
> > or
> > never visit the "bad" part of town. Fact is, most crimes are committed
> > by
> > people we know. Microsoft is often victimized, mainly because they are
> > so
> > ubiquitous. Cisco is running a poll right now to see which of the 17
> > critical patches are most important to users, because they only have
> > the manpower to fix 10 of them. Should we all stop using Cisco
> > products?
> >
> > This anti-MS drivel is so tiresome.
> >
> > -- Mary
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David F. Skoll" <dfs@...ringpenguin.com>
> > To: <tlarholm@...x.com>
> > Cc: <bugtraq@...urityfocus.com>; <ntbugtraq@...tserv.ntbugtraq.com>;
> > <full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:06 PM
> > Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Re: January 15 is Personal Firewall Day,
> > help the
> > cause
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 tlarholm@...x.com wrote:
> >
> > > I just wanted to remind everybody that tomorrow is Personal Firewall
> > Day.
> > > http://www.personalfirewallday.org/
> >
> > That Web site is utterly disingenuous.  Rather than giving low-value
> > information, how about high-value information that actually protects
> > people:
> >
> > 1) Don't use Windows.
> > 2) Don't use Outlook.
> >
> > Our company uses neither Windows nor Outlook, and although we do have
> > a firewall, we do not use anti-virus software.
> >
> > Of course, the sponsors of the site (Microsoft and a bunch of
> > anti-virus vendors) can hardly see it as being in their interest to
> > actually create a secure computing environment.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > David.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >
> >
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>
>
> -- 
> Hand over the Slackware CD's and back AWAY from the computer, your geek
> rights have been revoked !!!
>
> Michael Gale
> Slackware user :)
> Bluesuperman.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
>

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