From: chows at ozemail.com.au (Gregh)
Subject: Looking for a tool

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Griffin" <b.griffin@....edu.au>
To: "Gregh" <chows@...mail.com.au>; "Dave Howe"
<DaveHowe@....sharp-uk.co.uk>
Cc: "Lan Guy" <rlanguy@...mail.com>; "Schmehl, Paul L" <pauls@...allas.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] Looking for a tool


Hi all
> I was going to respond earlier, but figured I'd wait as I hadn't seen
> Gregh's comments for a while...

> You've made some pretty bold statements about spyware removal Gregh. How
> do you know that 'a simple spyware remover' is going to clean the system
> properly?

I do apologise for that comment. I really did mean to say it was "likely" to
have done it. Unfortunately I stuffed up my message so, as they say in Latin
"Mea Culpa".


> Given that neither Ad-Aware, Spybot S&D or any of the others that I'm
> aware of can clean all spyware *and* all the reg entries and folders etc
> created by said malware, your statement is very misleading. Further, in
> order to use these removal tools, I feel that a tech person should know
> what these tools are doing in the background so that in the event that
> these tools don't clean 'everything', the tech person can manually
> remove the rest of the detritus.

Granted that they should know what is going on but if you have a small fire
in front of you and a hose in your hand, do you go to the pub for a few
pints in order to piss it out or take the easy path? The easy path, if
taken, would be to try them first IMHO.

Finally, your statement:

> In other words, learn off the job and apply sensible practice
> once there!

> Implies that you don't or shouldn't be learning on the job?

Your interpretation. If you wish to interpret it that way then the blame is
yours. Of course wishing to read it that way is just silly wouldnt you
agree? If you cant take the time to know what you are doing, you shouldnt be
working in the field of your current job (whatever that field is). There is
a line you might not understand that a lot of people walk down in their jobs
without knowing it. A good I.T. person who specialises in a field is a
person who lives and breathes that field. Sure, they may not know how to
build a web site because they dont care about it or maybe they are an
excellent web site builder with no idea how to change a simple PSU in their
computer BUT if they choose that path and wish to be good at it, then they
should be prepared to do what it takes. Most people working in any way with
computers in I.T. or simple PC repair tend to be people who breathe the job.
That makes a good employee because they know what they are doing and if
faced with something they cant figure out straight away, will find a cure.
The person who doesnt breathe it may be better qualified but is unlikely to
be as good at the job.

> Strange, but I've always thought that IT has a continuous learning curve
> and that we learn both on and off the job. If it takes two hours of your

If you wont devote time when not at work to learning stuff to help you in
your work then, IMHO only, you dont deserve the job. Effortless ability on
the job comes with a lot of sweat somewhere off the job.

> day to learn how a piece of malware works so that you can write your own
> batch file or script to remove it from 1000 computers at your workplace,
> isn't that a good thing? It makes you smarter and less reliant on the
> code of other people.

That entirely depends on the situation. If it presents no problem to you at
all, why arent you doing your job and maybe giving thought to that at home,
on the train etc? If it has just brought your entire installation down then
you have wasted time already. I guess at that point, 2 more hours wont hurt
but they should be your LAST 2 hours in the job.

> Good third party tools are very handy, but they are no match for getting
> your hands dirty when it comes to building your skill set.

I didnt say it wasnt. All I said is that you should know all that and stop
wasting time. Learn the skills before doing the job so you can DO the job
you are paid to do. If you happen to be a person who breathes anything
computer, it isnt even a chore. It's a hobby, an interest, a profession and
a source of pride. Anything less than that attitude even if your skills
arent up to what YOU may consider a good position yet, classes you as a pay
cheque taker, not an I.T. worker - oh and again IMHO of course.

Sound rough to you? It takes time to understand it. I admit it took me most
of MY life till now, to learn, too.

Greg.

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