From: michealespinola at gmail.com (Micheal Espinola Jr)
Subject: joe the "expert" (was Re: IE is just as safe as FireFox )

Neither viewpoint is 100%.  But, over-all I would have to agree with
joe.  MCSE's (in my experience) are typically not worth the credit
[automatically] applied to them - not unless they have the experience
to back it.

That is of course true for any certification in any industry.  MCSE's
are easy to pick on, because the industry (employers) see it fit to
give them preferential treatment equal to System Engineer
qualifications of other products/OSs/etc - yet many MCSE's do not hold
the underlying understanding necessary for that title - and have
simply remembered and regurgitated a series of questions and answers
within an allotted time period.

I would think that members of this particular list would agree that
the larger percentile of computer users/administrators/developers that
know the least about the hardware and software they are using - are
Microsoft/Windows/PC users.

Don't take personal offense to generalizations and stereotypes that
may sound like they apply to you.  They exist only because there is
some truth to them, but they are not considered absolute.  Next time
you wish to express your viewpoint, why don't you try it with a little
more professionalism and decorum suitable for a public forum.

Your accusations again joe's expertise and knowledge in this area are
completely unsubstantiated.


On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:16:52 -0800 (PST), Maurizio Trinco
<maurizio_trinco@...oo.com> wrote:
> "joe" <mvp@...ware.net> wrote:
> 
> > [1] Don't get me started on MCSEs. As a whole I
> think they hurt Windows far
> > more than any other thing. A bunch of people who
> feel they are experts in
> > Windows because they took a couple of tests that 10
> year olds could memorize
> > and pass and yet still not be able to run anything.
> The best I can say about
> > MCSEs is that I will *try* not to look down upon
> them for being MCSEs and
> > let them prove themselves to be worthless before I
> assume it in person.
> 
> Now from joe's own site, comes this fully untrue
> statement:
> 
> 'So what is a Microsoft MVP? The flip response is a
> Microsoft MVP is a person who answers the questions
> the MCSE/MCD/MCT folks ask.'
> 
> My dear Joe,
> 
> Let's see what Microsoft has to say about MVPs:
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;mvpfaqs&style=flat
> 
> Are Microsoft MVPs experts in all Microsoft
> technologies and products?
> No. Although many MVPs have in-depth knowledge of more
> than one product or technology, none of them are
> experts in all Microsoft technologies or products.
> 
> So, my dear joe, you are nothing but an ego-inflated
> bullshitter. Your verbal diarrhea is only matched by
> your unbelievably low level of competence when it
> comes to Microsoft products. Being an MCSE is much
> more than answering some "how do I send a message with
> Outlook" in one or two newsgroups. I worked really
> hard for my MCSE titles and honestly, the idea that I
> (or any of my colleagues) could seek enlightenment
> from you is simply ridiculous. If you think that
> passing exams like 216, 296 or the design exams is
> something an... er, MVP could do... then you'd better
> think again.
> While I'm an MCSE, I'm by no means an ass-kisser for
> Microsoft, as your MVPiness seems to be. Their
> products, contrary to popular belief, could be
> extremely complex (try real life business environment,
> compared to that unlicensed version of Windows 2003
> server you're running at home) and many times
> extremely badly written and vulnerable -- but very
> complex nevertheless. Saying otherwise, only proves
> your lack of specialization (hint: familiarity is NOT
> specialization; you may be 'familiar' with your
> colorful XP, but that makes you by no means a
> 'specialist').
> Oh, and something else: for some 10 years before I
> became an MCSE, I was the typical Unix admin. I used
> to laugh at Windows NT, I stopped laughing at 2000.
> I'm by no means friends with hip-kiddies who think
> Linux is cooler than Window$$$, I really dislike
> Microsoft-moronized Windows ass-kissers like you, who
> only know buzzwords, but have no real knowledge of the
> system. You should go together and exchange some
> fanatic e-mails; you belong in a place where
> 'my-OS-is-longer-yours' fights
> 'windows-2003-is-secure-by-default-'cause-Billy-told-us-so'.
> Anything else... is just proving yourself how MVP and
> not MCSE you are. Or whatever Unix/IT certification
> you may choose, other than the ridiculous MVP thingie.
> 
> Take care and don't let the bedbugs bite.
> 
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