Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:35:04 -0500
From: Leif Ericksen <lericksen@...global.net>
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: spammer wades into US Presidential race

Another thing that is laughable is this person Ron Paul is said to once
elected stop the war in Iraq.  OK just how does ONE (1) person plan do
do that?  I love the fact that people want to blame Mr President for the
war in Iraq.  But that is not my understanding of U.S. Government
operations.

Yes the president can send the troops to war.
Congress is needed to declare war (the president can not do it)
See the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

After World War II, Congress voluntarily limited its use of the power to
declare war to issuing authorizations of force. The War Powers
Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to
wage war without the approval of the Congress. The United States of
America has formally declared war against foreign nations five separate
times.

Anyway it would take an act of congress to pull the troops back and they
have not gotten together to make that choice.  So how is one person this
Ron Paul going to make it happen.  

Here is another piece of found information: (I am going to make areas
stand out with asterisk *)  Google is your friend!
 
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2002/tst101402.htm  
(It states RON PAUL)

Two weeks ago, during a hearing in the House International Relations
committee, 

****I attempted to force the committee to follow the Constitution and
vote to declare war with Iraq.**** 

COMMENT: If Ron Paul is the author of that Vote for me and I will end
the war he is contradicting himself the the statement found in the link
I have provided and just outlined.  Does that mean a lie?  Dishonesty?

**** he language of Article I, section 8, is quite clear: only Congress
has the authority to declare war.*****

COMMENT: I have not looked at the information but it is my understanding
they can RECALL THE TROOPS if the president sends them in on an action.
But that has not been done.

*** Yet Congress in general, and the committee in particular, have done
everything possible to avoid making such a declaration. Why? Because
members lack the political courage to call an invasion of Iraq what it
really is- a war- and vote yes or no on the wisdom of such a war. ****

COMMENT: Lack of voting and indecisiveness is in essence is that not an
approval until they get mad.  Much like parent that watches there child
doing something until it is really bad then they intervene but it may be
to late the kid is hurt or something is broken. I am guilty of that.
Letting the kids walk and jump on the couch because they are little.
But by the time they are 3 it is time to stop them and it is hard...
 
 Congress would rather give up its most important authorized power to
the President and the UN than risk losing an election later if the war
goes badly. There is always congressional "support" for a popular war,
but the politicians want room to maneuver if the public later changes
its mind. So members take half steps, supporting confusingly worded
"authorizations" that they can back away from easily if necessary.

COMMENT:  With they support unpopular wars to fit their own agenda!
Is that what that is say room to maneuver?

Please read the entire information after all I could be skewing this
information to fit my own agenda right? Or then again maybe I am taking
things out of context. Ron Paul shows that he is anti UN and mad that
congress is being so "laissez-faire" with regards to the presidents
actions be they good or bad.  

One more thing from Ron Paul in this link:
**** When Congress issued clear declarations of war against Japan and
Germany during World War II, the nation was committed and victory was
achieved. When Congress shirks its duty and avoids declaring war, as
with Korea, and Vietnam, the nation is less committed and victory is
elusive. No lives should be lost in Iraq unless Congress expresses the
clear will of the American people and votes yes or no on a declaration
of war.****

COMMENT:  Looks like Ron Paul would be for the war in Iraq as long as
congress backs the presidents actions.  after all the only wars that the
U.S. had a real victory in are those that congress states something to
the affect of "it's war!".

Here is another link that may be of interest:
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2004/cr020404.htm

google terms: +declare +war +us  +"ron paul" site:.gov

more searches with: +rfid  ""ron paul" site:.gov

This link shows he is against the national ID card:
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2005/cr020905.htm
Talks about Mexican U.S. relations:
www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/archives/109/27229.pdf 


Well that is enough information hopefully I do not get myself on a watch
list for all this.  After all maybe I will be labeled a rebel now.


--
Leif Ericksen


On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 12:04 -0400, Aaron Katz wrote:
> Could you provide a little more information/investigation (I'm too
> lazy, at this very moment, to do the background investigation that you
> should have provided, like who derk gaston is)?  According to the
> headers, this looks like it might be forged (not just the little "may
> be forged" notice, but the source locations, and even the name of the
> person sending the mail - what association do they have to Ron Paul?)
> 
> On 10/28/07, lsi <stuart@...erdelix.net> wrote:
> > [Well, it could be worse.  Spam that wants to end the Iraq war,
> > great! - Stu]
> >
> > Return-Path: <janek@...withxxx.com>
> > Received: from 195.247.52.59.broad.nc.jx.dynamic.163data.com.cn
> > (195.247.52.59.broad.nc.jx.dynamic.163data.com.cn [59.52.247.195]
> > (may be forged))
> >         by x.y.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l9S5irW8004442
> >         for <x@...et>; Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:44:54 GMT
> > Received: from [59.52.247.195] by dns02e.hants.gov.uk; Sun, 28 Oct
> > 2007 05:44:51 +0000
> > Message-ID: <000701c81925$02a66001$93e966b1@...dwrot>
> > From: "derk gaston" <janek@...withxxx.com>
> > To: <x@...et>
> > Subject: Government Wasteful Spending Eliminated By Ron Paul  yGVed
> > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 03:57:28 +0000
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Hello Scott,
> >
> > Ron Paul is for the people, unless you want your children to
> > have human implant RFID chips, a National ID card and create
> > a North American Union and see an economic collapse far worse
> > than the great depression. Vote for Ron Paul he speaks the
> > truth and the media and government is afraid of him. This is
> > the last honest politican left to bring this country out of
> > this rut from the War Profiteers and bush Administration has
> > created. Get motivated America, don't believe the lies of the
> > media he has also WON the GOP Debate On Sunday! Value Freedom
> > and Liberty instead of corporate lies and corruption. Bypass
> > this media blackout they are doing to Ron Paul, tell your family
> > and friends and get involved in a local group at meetup.com make
> > your voice heard! He will end the War In Iraq immediately,
> > He will eliminate the IRS and wasteful government spending, and
> > eliminate the Federal Reserve and restore power to the people
> > and the only person not a member on the CFR. Can any other runner
> > make these claims or give Americans the true freedom we were all
> > raised to believe? We are all economic slaves to the banks and the
> > illegal federal Reserve. This is why our currency is worth nothing
> > because of Hidden Inflation Tax and the IRS taking everything
> > you make!
> >
> > ** RON PAUL WILL STOP THE IRAQ WAR IMMEDIATELY! **
> >
> > He has NEVER voted:
> > * to raise taxes
> > * for an unbalanced budget
> > * to raise congressional pay
> > * for a federal restriction on gun ownership
> > * to increase the power of the executive branch
> >
> > He HAS voted:
> > * against the Iraq war
> > * against the inappropriately named USA PATRIOT act
> > * against regulating the internet
> > * against the Military Commissions Act
> >
> > He will eliminate the IRS, Wasteful Government Spending &
> > Stop The Iraq War Immediately!
> >
> > Most importantly, he voted NO on anything in Congress that
> > is not allowed by the Constitution. And he Despises any
> > politican that does not do their job for the people and lives
> > up to the constitution!
> >
> > Google.com & Youtube.com Search: "Ron Paul"
> > Join The Revolution!
> >
> > ***************************************
> > We Need A Real President That Will Restore And Protect
> > Americans! Stop The War! Protect Our Borders!
> > *********VOTE RON PAUL 2008************
> > rIQdkb
> >
> >
> > -- End --
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Stuart Udall
> > stuart at@...erdelix.dot net - http://www.cyberdelix.net/
> >
> > ---
> >  * Origin: lsi: revolution through evolution (192:168/0.2)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
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