Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:06:10 +0000
From: nnp <version5@...il.com>
To: Fionnbharr <thouth@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: agile hacking?

What's the Negative Public Relations Industry?

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Fionnbharr <thouth@...il.com> wrote:

> PDP,
>
> I don't really need backing up, I think my stuff stands but it seems
> you haven't looked at it still. Reckon you could spell my name
> correctly though? I get enough typo's with my real name let alone
> people messing up 'thoth' (though 6 letter minimum for gmail account
> names meant I had to put a u in there =/).
>
> Seriously though the last thing we need is more 'hacking exposed'
> style books out there. The disclaimer on your site says more about you
> than anything else:
>
> "GNUCITIZEN is a Cutting-edge, Ethical Hacker Outfit, Information
> Think Tank, which primarily deals with all aspects of the art of
> hacking. GNUCITIZEN's work has been featured in established magazines
> and information portals, such as Wired, Eweek, The Register, PC Week,
> IDG, BBC and many others. The members of the GNUCITIZEN group are well
> known and respected experts in the Information Security and Negative
> Public Relations (PR) Industries, with widely recognized experience in
> the government and corporate sectors and the open source community."
>
> Talk about public masturbation. I don't think any of the other people
> you mention in your posts that you look up to walk around claiming
> they're awesome nearly as much as you.
>
> On 19/03/2008, Petko D. Petkov <pdp.gnucitizen@...glemail.com> wrote:
> > reepex,
> >
> >  you are the only one backing up troth, read on all comments... I don't
> >  bash people. I encourage them and this is present in all my work and
> >  the work behind the GNUCITIZEN umbrella. Not I, but the crowd hanged
> >  him, as well they will hang you for your arrogant, egocentric, foolish
> >  and rather juvenile behavior. I personally don't care about you, nor I
> >  care if you like the work on GNUCITIZEN or even my work. In my eyes
> >  and the eyes of others you follow very basic parasitic social pattern:
> >  making a name for yourself not based on your knowledge but based on
> >  your arrogant, bottomless comments.
> >
> >  You don't lead by example! You are a parasite, a vampire, sucking
> >  blood and energy from those around you. I hardly doubt that anyone can
> >  consider you as a friend or even appreciate your skills and knowledge
> >  when you are nothing more but a vulture.
> >
> >  Comparing the Agile Hacking project with books such as "How to Own a
> >  Continent" (by FX, Paul Craig, Joe Grand, and Tim Mullen...), "How to
> >  Own the Box" (by Ryan Russell, Ido Dubrawsky, FX, and Joe Grand...),
> >  "How to Own a Shadow" (by Johnny Long, Tim Mullen, and Ryan
> >  Russell...), "The Art of Intrusion" (by Kevin D. Mitnick, and William
> >  L. Simon..) and the "Hacking Exposed" series (by some of the most
> >  recognized information security experts such as, but not only, Johnny
> >  Cache, Chris Davis, Stuart McClure, Joel Scambray, Andrew Vladimirov,
> >  Brian Hatch, David Endler...), is nothing but a flattering comment. I
> >  hope that this project achieves and even superseeds their success.
> >  These are some of my favorite books and I have a great respect for
> >  their authors.
> >
> >  You and all others who support your dieing cause and who have
> >  repeatedly attacked what we have build from scratch with far too many
> >  sacrifaces, can laugh now but the simple fact is that you will never
> >  even come close to what we have already achieved and gave to this
> >  community. You and all other Full-disclosure trolls proved to be
> >  untrustworthy, unworthy even creatures. I hope that your real
> >  identities stay well hidden behind your nicknames as I highly doubt
> >  that you will succeed in life. If I were in your place I would have
> >  reconsidered my values. Your and the other trolls comments are not
> >  satire but idiocracy as a fellow GNUCITIZEN reader have pointed out.
> >
> >  Kind Regards,
> >  pdp
> >
> >  founder of GNUCITIZEN, information security research, penetration
> >  tester, life hacker, co-author of two best-selling books, author of
> >  numerous printed publications and online media outlets, active speaker
> >  and opinion former, hacker culture evangelist, founder of Hakiri,
> >  entrepreneur, lecturer, etc...
> >
> >  I am far behind the people I look after for inspiration and guidance
> >  but I am well ahead of you.
> >
> >  On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 8:35 AM, reepex <reepex@...il.com> wrote:
> >  > so no one respects me, i bash people's projects, etc... whatever.
> >  >
> >  > You still do not explain why you have the attitude that any who does
> not
> >  > like your work or ideas is a talentless troll that you can brush off.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 2:40 AM, Petko D. Petkov
> >
> > > <pdp.gnucitizen@...glemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > Dear Reepex,
> >  > >
> >  > > Unfortunately, you've already lost all the respect for a larger
> >  > > portion of people on this mailing list as well outside of it. You
> have
> >  > > never led by example but by bashing people on what they try to
> >  > > accomplish. Everyone who has been in this industry/life style for
> long
> >  > > enough know that they don't know everything. In fact, as the saying
> >  > > goes: "A wise man never knows all, only fools know everything".
> >  > >
> >  > > My advise to you is to stop pretending being someone and be who you
> >  > > are. If you think that this project is crap then help to make it
> >  > > better. Everyone that has ever written a book, knows how hard it is
> to
> >  > > put everything together and how frustrating it is to want to put
> the
> >  > > things that you want not having the chance to do so. It is easier
> to
> >  > > say what is crap but 100x harder to do it wright. Also, it is very
> >  > > easy to take apart people from what they have accomplished, I've
> done
> >  > > it myself:
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  >
> http://www.gnucitizen.org/blog/hamster-plus-hotspot-equals-web-20-meltdown-not/
> >  > >
> >  > > but 100 of times harder to put yourself in their shoes:
> >  > >
> >  > >
> http://www.gnucitizen.org/blog/reconsidering-the-side-jacking-attack/
> >  > >
> >  > > Again, lead by example not by baseless comments.
> >  > >
> >  > > Regards,
> >  > > pdp
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:59 AM, Nate McFeters <
> nate.mcfeters@...il.com>
> >  > wrote:
> >  > > > Ok, I'll buy that, that's reasonable.  I wasn't in the exchange
> with
> >  > thoth.
> >  > > > I guess when I read about a community project to write the
> ultimate
> >  > hacking
> >  > > > book, I assumed people from all backgrounds of security would be
> >  > interested
> >  > > > in contributing... maybe that's a bit of a Utopian view, but I
> could
> >  > imagine
> >  > > > a one stop Frankenstein of a book (probably one so large you
> couldn't
> >  > even
> >  > > > carry a hard-copy) that has some really great great stuff if the
> right
> >  > > > people contribute.
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Right now, I've got disjointed information everywhere that I
> reference
> >  > for
> >  > > > various things all over my damn computer and bookshelfs...
> Uninformed
> >  > > > papers, presentations from various sources, manuals, books, blah
> blah
> >  > blah.
> >  > > > If it was done right, I think the book could be pretty damn cool.
>  Of
> >  > > > course, that depends on the community support and the content
> that comes
> >  > out
> >  > > > of that.  I'm not sure what PDP has envisioned for the book, I've
> been
> >  > just
> >  > > > too busy today to give the article a good read, but I've always
> been
> >  > very
> >  > > > interested in these community projects.
> >  > > >
> >  > > > I think that's why I love ToorCon and really was bummed that I
> didn't
> >  > get to
> >  > > > make it out to 24c3 this year... lots of collaboration going on
> there.
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Nate
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > > On 3/18/08, reepex <reepex@...il.com> wrote:
> >  > > >
> >  > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Nate McFeters
> >  > <nate.mcfeters@...il.com>
> >  > > > wrote:
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > > > I don't consider myself a 'kiddie' and I've considered
> contributing
> >  > to
> >  > > > it.  I feel like the old adage of blowing out someone elses flame
> to
> >  > make
> >  > > > yours burn brighter applies here.  Reepex, I didn't get a chance
> to see
> >  > your
> >  > > > presentation at kiwicon, bit to expensive for an American on a
> tight
> >  > budget
> >  > > > to get out there, but if you have a link, I'd love to have a
> look.
> >  > We've
> >  > > > talked before, so I assume the presentation is good since I know
> you
> >  > know
> >  > > > your stuff; however, I've also seen some cool stuff come out of
> PDP and
> >  > > > Gnucitizen... why the need to bash?
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > I did not give the talk, thoth did. The reason I brought it up
> is
> >  > because
> >  > > > of
> >  > > > > http://www.gnucitizen.org/blog/agile-hacking/#comment-116766
> >  > > > > where pdp blindly assumes thoth does not have a clue, while not
> >  > knowing
> >  > > > his background which must be some strange complex where people
> think
> >  > anyone
> >  > > > who disagrees with them is inferior.
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > > >  Web app hacking may not be the coolest topic in the world to
> >  > yourself
> >  > > > and many others, but it is something that a lot of companies are
> >  > concerned
> >  > > > with these days,
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > Yes and we agreed web hacking has its place... the point I made
> was
> >  > that
> >  > > > you cannot write 'the best hacking manual ever made' as pdp is
> touting
> >  > it
> >  > > > while only covering web hacking and running combinations of
> different
> >  > tools
> >  > > > such as kismet/tcpdump that pdp mentined as an example.
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > >
> >  > > > _______________________________________________
> >  > > >  Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >  > > >  Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >  > > >  Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >  > > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > --
> >  > >
> >  > > Petko D. (pdp) Petkov | GNUCITIZEN | Hakiri | Spin Hunters
> >  > >
> >  > > gnucitizen.org | hakiri.org | spinhunters.org
> >  > >
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
> >  --
> >
> >  Petko D. (pdp) Petkov | GNUCITIZEN | Hakiri | Spin Hunters
> >
> >  gnucitizen.org | hakiri.org | spinhunters.org
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >  Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >  Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>



-- 
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