Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:54:24 -0400
From: Ureleet <ureleet@...il.com>
To: n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com>
Cc: n3td3v <n3td3v@...glegroups.com>, full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: Joel Esler comment on Sans ISC podcast

joel -- i told u not to respond, you didnt listen, damn it..  i dont
know how much you know about n3td3v, but he tries to make his own name
off of other pplz fame and work.  take web application security day.
take the day he went off on hd moore.  take any day, ever.  hes just
jumping on your coattails and riding you for all you are worth now.
fukin ignore him.

n3td3v -- you fuckin douche, get a job.  quit trying to ride joels
dick like you tried to ride everyone elses on your little web
application day (oh by the way, how did that go for you?), or hd
moores dick.  you dont work for anyone, you dont know shit, you are
plainly ranting about whatever and whoever.  find some REAL security
issues to talk about, and we will gladly participate with you.  mi5
doesnt care.  you suck.  go hang.

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 4:26 PM, n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Joel Esler <joel.esler@....com> wrote:
>> On Jun 18, 2008, at 12:26 PM, n3td3v wrote:
>>
>> Joel Esler said he doesn't switch his phone off on flights and that
>> anyone who is on a plane with him should watch out.
>>
>> First of all, I said "before I got the iPhone with the 'airplane' mode"  I'd
>> forget to turn off my phone alot, i'd throw it in my briefcase when I'd go
>> through security, and forget it's in there.  Heck I've seen people actually
>> been able to receive calls on their crackberries while in mid flight.  Not
>> that they answered them.  But I've seen the phones ring.  I have an iPhone
>> now, I place it in airplane mode when I get on a flight.
>
> Why did you tell people to be careful when you're on a flight? Does
> that mean you're planning to fly again with your device turned on and
> that you suspect it will mess with the planes electronics?
>
>> There are actually studies going on RIGHT NOW to see if phones can be
>> allowed to be used during flights by the FCC/FAA, and in other countries as
>> well.
>
> I hope they consider this incident before making up their mind...
>
> They (experts) suspect a radio frequency messed with the electronics,
> one that was being used by MI5 to block mobile phone signals.
>
> "An offical probe into the Heathrow crash has focused on the high-tech
> jamming device which shields Gordon Brown from terrorist attack.
>
> When the Boeing 777 crashed on January 17 it passed just feet above
> the Prime Minister's official car as he was driven to the airport to
> board a flight to Beijing.
>
> Inside the car is a jammer which broadcasts radio signals 100 times
> more powerful than a mobile phone.
>
> The device is designed to block signals which MI5 say terrorists use
> to blow up remote-control bombs."
>
> http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/2008/04/27/gordon-bown-in-a-jam-98487-20396286/
>
> "WASHINGTON — A total electronics failure reportedly occurred before
> the crash of a British Airways 777 at London's Heathrow Airport on
> Thursday (Jan. 17).
> All 136 passengers and 16 crew members escaped from the British
> Airways flight from Beijing. The BBC reported that 13 passengers were
> injured.
>
> An airport worker told the BBC that the pilot of the Boeing 777 lost
> all power, and had to glide the plane to a landing. The plane's
> landing gear collapsed after crash landing.
>
> The BBC said the airport worker was told by the pilot that all
> aircraft electronics had failed and that the crew had no warning of a
> problem. "It just went," the worker was quoted as saying. "It's a
> miracle. The [pilot] deserves a medal as big as a frying pan."
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205900406
>
> "Computer glitch:This happened with a Malaysian Airlines 777 and a
> former 777 captain told The Sunday Times that for both engines to fail
> at the same time "it has got to be commanded" - ie, it was computer
> error in controlling the engines. Verdict: possible and many experts'
> prime concern "
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3216746.ece
>
> "The British Airways plane that crash landed at Heathrow today was a
> Boeing 777 - currently regarded as the safest aeroplane in the world
> by aviation experts.
>
> The plane has only been in use for seven years and is the first
> aircraft of its kind to have been designed by computers and boasts the
> latest "avionic and navigational systems".
>
> The Boeing 777 has a number of variant models - such as the 777-200ER
> and 777-300ER - but all the models being flown around the world
> currently have a clean safety record."
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-508869/Boeing-777-crash-landed-Heathrow-safest-aeroplanes-world-say-experts.html
>
>> Personally I hope this doesn't go through, as I don't want to be sitting
>> next to some dude during my 100,000+ miles I fly a year to hear yacking the
>> whole flight.
>>
>
> I'd be more concerned about terrorists using the phone to trigger some
> kind of security vulnerability with the planes electronics than having
> my sleep disturbed by a single mom or retired couple muttering away on
> the phone.
>
> I think all gadgets and gizmos should be banned from flights incase of
> 0-day vulnerabilities that are unknown about and cause a system
> failure.
>
>> Is this some kind of dry american humour that i'm missing here or is
>> that not even funny?
>>
>> yes, It was a joke.  Sorry if it was in bad taste.
>>
>
> If it was just a joke in a bar then it might be funny, it was a joke
> during a Sans internet storm center podcast on a segment about
> bluetooth vulnerabilities, and you and your co-workers were just
> laughing and a joking like you were in a bar about leaving your phone
> on and telling people to be careful if they were on the same flight as
> you.
>
> Even if I overheard you telling that joke in a bar I would probably
> walk over and question you about it, or possibly just call the police.
>
> If you had made the same joke at the airport terminal and an airport
> official overheard you, in Britian you would have been arrested by
> anti-terrorism police... I don't know what the rules are in U.S.A
> about jokes about flights you are about to get onto.
>
> You have a responsibility to your readers and listeners who may be
> easily infulenced, like the young (teens) who may actually see you
> guys as a role model.
>
> You're doing a public podcast about security vulnerabilities and in
> that context what you said was shocking and totally irresponsible.
>
>> --
>> Joel Esler
>>   joel.esler@....com
>>   http://blog.joelesler.net
>> [m]
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'm not saying you should be banned from flying by the TSA, I just
> said it to grab your attention and realise the seriousness of what you
> said in the context of a podcast which is talking about security
> vulnerabilities and the fact there is still a flight that crash landed
> at heathrow that experts still don't know the cause of.
>
> Again, with British radio shows we have a body called Ofcom who
> regulates what can and can't be said in public broadcasts, I don't
> know if they regulate internet podcasts as well or wether there is an
> American equivalent or not, but if you were in Britian and Ofcom
> controlled public broadcasts via internet podcasts, you guys would
> probably be getting fined for your comment. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/
>
> This is probably a sign that public broadcasts via internet podcasts
> need to be regulated in the same way as TV and ordinary radio shows
> are.
>
> I hope MI5 are keeping an eye on you anyway on the next scheduled
> flight you make in and out of the U.K. just to make sure you're not
> cracking any jokes which may alarm passengers, especially after you've
> had a couple of shandy's at the airport bar and are feeling in a
> humourous mood.
>
> All the best,
>
> n3td3v
> _______________________________________________
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