Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:29:10 -0400
From: Ureleet <ureleet@...il.com>
To: n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: What the UK government care about in a hacker

finally something sane.  i agree.

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 8:50 PM, n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 1:38 AM, Ureleet <ureleet@...il.com> wrote:
>>
>> u know how old this article is?
>
> A couple of months old and a prime example of that the intelligence services
> don't give a fuck about fire fox, internet explorer, opera and other gay
> applications people post application flaws about on Full-Disclosure.
>
> I want to see things post that actually affect national security and the
> government actually give a fuck about.
>
> Let's move away from stupid computer applications and start focusing on
> national security if you want to be an elite hacker, nobody cares about
> applications, buffer overflow and the like, its over and done with, its old
> skool, nobody gives a fuck anymore.
>
> If you want to impress the government then start on mobile, radio frequency,
> chip / hardware hacks.
>
> The security community has got to evolve, we can't be sitting here in 2020
> still getting wet and excited about an internet explorer or quick time
> flaws, its getting gay, its nearly 2009...
>
> All the best,
>
> n3td3v
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 5:45 PM, n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:08 AM, n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com> wrote:
>> >> I think we've gone beyond the F-Secure has said stage, I think folks
>> >> are looking for something more. I think the security space has evolved
>> >> already in respect of home user hackers, the security professional
>> >> circuit and with the government.
>> >>
>> >> Infact the government are finding it hard to keep up with what's
>> >> possible by the government and what's technologically possible by joe
>> >> average in his bedroom.
>> >>
>> >> A few years ago it was impossible for joe average to shoot the live
>> >> scene of a national emergency via his cell phone, email that footage
>> >> to a national television station and that to be used as prime time
>> >> evidence of the incident, now it is.
>> >>
>> >> With this I look onto the media, its still using F-Secure press
>> >> releases for its news round.
>> >>
>> >> Your average joe is now able to creep behind the media wall and get
>> >> the news before the outlet gets time to read up.
>> >>
>> >> The fact, the media is becoming less important in the security arena
>> >> for bringing us news.
>> >>
>> >> Your average joe can configure google.com/ig to give them keyword news
>> >> thats coming onto the news wires and google.com/alerts can too.
>> >>
>> >> What used to be a government fundamental for the intelligence
>> >> services, is now becoming a challenge for them to know what user is
>> >> signed upto what and how much they know.
>> >>
>> >> Before it was more straight forward, they would know what news sites
>> >> were available as civilian intelligence sources but now its becoming
>> >> less obvious.
>> >>
>> >> The intelligence community are having to dig deep into online
>> >> community to see what is possibly being plotted and what sources of
>> >> information they have and the technique in which its gathered.
>> >>
>> >> Today the world is changing, what used to be charted water only
>> >> reserved for the intelligence services is now also being used by the
>> >> civilian population.
>> >>
>> >> It's scary times, hackers have the best ability to over come the
>> >> intelligence services, not the script kids, but the hackers!
>> >>
>> >> The main focus for the British intelligence service is mobile and
>> >> anything to do with radio frequency hacks, including RFID type stuff,
>> >> that's high on the British government look out.
>> >>
>> >> The media are hyping about mobile phone worm, while this hype *is*
>> >> unfounded right now, thats not to say its not top on the British
>> >> government's watch list of most desirable vulnerability threat vector
>> >> against national infrastructure of government and civilian population.
>> >>
>> >> The hax0r credibility score board from the government's point of view
>> >> isn't hacks in safari, fire fox or internet explorer, its
>> >> telecommunications and radio frequency hacks right now.
>> >>
>> >> So while you and your friends might think browser hacks, etc.. think
>> >> again, the real stuff that gets the UK government interested in you is
>> >> radio, mobile and chip hacks, anything to do with electronics and
>> >> communication, they don't actually give a fuck about applications, DNS
>> >> hacks, Cisco router hacks and the like.
>> >>
>> >> While those things like  DNS hacks, Cisco router hacks and the like
>> >> are internet critical, they aren't national security critical...
>> >>
>> >> So hackers, if you want the most hax0r credibility points and
>> >> attention with the UK government, think national infrastructure, radio
>> >> frequency, chip hacks and mobile telecommunication interception.
>> >>
>> >> If you want head hunted into the UK government cyber defensive,
>> >> offensive and research departments go for those vectors... keep away
>> >> from silly stuff like web browser hacks, DNS poisoning, Cisco etc.
>> >>
>> >> How will the UK government contact you? Brute guys will jump out of a
>> >> range rover land rover which will have darkened windows and will give
>> >> you an offer you can't refuse after abducting you for five minutes
>> >> based on your research post on Full-Disclosure.
>> >>
>> >> All the best,
>> >>
>> >> n3td3v
>> >>
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > From: n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com>
>> > Date: Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 10:42 PM
>> > Subject: GSM Researcher stopped at Heathrow Airport by UK government
>> > officials
>> > To: n3td3v <n3td3v@...glegroups.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > I was leaving today from the United Kingdom/Heathrow airport. I am
>> > about to speak at the HITB IT security conference about GSM security
>> > and the USRP (gnu-radio project).
>> >
>> > I was searched by the UK government while waiting at the Gate and
>> > reading a newspaper. A UK Government employee flipped his badge and
>> > said "Let's talk. Come over here".
>> >
>> > They detained my USRP (Software Defined Radio), my mobile phone and my
>> > personal SIM card.
>> >
>> > They did their homework. They knew who I am, where i live, which day I
>> > speak at the conference and who I work for.
>> >
>> > I'm involved in the GSM software project where we also developed a new
>> > attack against the GSM encryption A51. We published our research in
>> > February at the Blackhat security conference in Washington DC.
>> >
>> > I understand that the government wanted to make sure that I'm not
>> > exporting any cryptanalytic device.
>> >
>> > I did not. I will not. The USRP is a radio. My mobile phone is a
>> > normal nokia 3310 phone and my SIM card is a sim card.
>> >
>> > They said they do not know what the USRP is and that I can not take it
>> > until they have checked it in the lab. This can take 14 days (1/2
>> > month).
>> >
>> > So be it. They have it for 14 days. Guys, enjoy the device! It's fun
>> > playing around with it!
>> >
>> > I'm uneasy that they took my mobile phone and my sim card. Having a
>> > pregnant wife at home and not being reachable complicates my
>> > situation.
>> >
>> > Is this common practice? Are they allowed to do this?
>> > Any tips how I can get my mobile phone and my sim card back quicker?
>> >
>> > Our project: http://wiki.thc.org/gsm
>> > The USRP is available from http://www.ettus.com
>> > The GNU RADIO project: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio
>> >
>> >
>> > stunning,
>> >
>> > THC
>> > ---
>> > Appendix: Surprisingly they did not detain my laptop or my paperwork
>> > which would be the most likely place to store any information related
>> > to cracking A51. They were also not interested in my 160GB harddrive
>> > which would have been the obvious place for storing the rainbow
>> > tables. Neither were they interested in the high performance FPGA
>> > chip.
>> >
>> > Instead they took all equipment that could have been used for
>> > demonstrating that GSM signals can be received with publicly available
>> > hardware for 700 USD.
>> >
>> > It does not appear that they were after cryptanalytic information.
>> >
>> > I received a yellow paper about my detained goods. They left the field
>> > blank that reads
>> > "The goods specified below are detained for the following reason:". What
>> > reason?
>> >
>> > They also crossed out the field "Agent" of the officer who was in
>> > charge of the operation.
>> >
>> > ---
>> > UPDATE 2008-04-18
>> > Arrived back at Heathrow. Airplane crew announced "All passengers
>> > please have your passport ready. There is a passport check while
>> > leaving the airplane. Passenger Steve Mueller please make yourself
>> > noticeable to the crew. Steve Mueller please."
>> >
>> > They told me at the gate that I can get my equipment back. I had a
>> > chat with them and they answered many of my questions. They did not
>> > answer who requested that I should be searched when I left the
>> > country.
>> >
>> > I'm happy that I got my equipment back and I appreciate that they had
>> > it checked out quickly.
>> >
>> > I'm still not sure why they took exactly the radio receiver parts. I
>> > had to change my presentation for the conference and was not able to
>> > demonstrate the USRP/gnu-radio.
>> >
>> >
>> > http://blog.thc.org/index.php?/archives/1-GSM-Researcher-stopped-at-Heathrow-Airport-by-UK-government-officials.html
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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>> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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