Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:03:14 -0400
From: "Exibar" <exibar@...lair.com>
To: <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>,
	<info@...egary.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to, hacker's,
	extradition to US

 Look, Mckinnon broke into the computer systems.  Under his own admission he
ran scripts to help him do this.  Some of those scripts crashed systems.  He
possibly deleted files and what-not in his travels, either willfully or not,
doesn't really matter.  He loaded software on those systems so he could get
in AGAIN easier...  AND he leaves a note threatening that he will do it
again.

  All this on KNOWN government computer systems.  He intentionally wanted to
get into these systems to look for UFO crap.     

   This goes way beyond just simply leaving a note stating that your door is
unlocked.  This is going into the unlocked car, putting in a remote control
door opener, and threatening to re-enter the car again.

   He knew what he was doing, he knew who's machines he was doing it to, he
was obviously going to keep doing it until caught by the sound of his
message.

   He's a criminal, period.  He should be properly tried in a court of law.
The way the UK an dthe US law is written, that means extradited to the US
for a trial.

  All the protesting or debating won't change the fact that he's a criminal.
Plain and simple, deal with it....  His sentence will be based upon what
comes up in court, and it hardly ever is the maximum.

  Exibar

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of n3td3v
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 7:42 PM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk; n3td3v; info@...egary.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] [inbox] Re: Supporters urge halt to,
hacker's,extradition to US

nobody could be so stupid to leave their car door unlocked, ::blush::
the u.s military did, then gary mckinnon left a note on their wind
screen wiper to say, look guys, you left your door unlocked, maybe you
should fix it.

the u.s military come back to the car, and claim the inside of the car
has been damaged, but no proof it was gary mckinnon who did it, when
their were plenty other people who could have walked past the same car
and done something to it.

the u.s decide they can't prove it was gary mckinnon who did the
damage, because all they've got is the note on the wind screen wiper
saying, you left your door unlocked, maybe you should fix it.

next we know, the kid is being extradited to the u.s on charges of
carrying out the biggest car crime of all time, and they change the
law to say, actually we don't need proof you caused the damage or that
any damage existed, we're blaming you anyway.

by the way, we're giving you 60 years and you're never going to see
your friends and family ever again.

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 10:57 PM, Exibar <exibar@...lair.com> wrote:
>  So you guys are saying that if I forget my keys in my car and the door
> unlocked that it's not a crime to steal my car?
>  It's not a crime to NOT lock your house, but it's still a crime to open
> that door and take that big screen tv if you're not the owner...
>
>  Doesn't matter if he willfully caused damage or not, he still caused that
> damage, he's still a criminal.  The details will have to come out in
court,
> and they will.  Either in the US or in the UK, doesn't matter...
>
>  He's a criminal, period... He should be treated as such...
>
>  Exibar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
> [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of n3td3v
> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:24 AM
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk; n3td3v; info@...egary.org.uk
> Subject: [inbox] Re: [Full-disclosure] Supporters urge halt to,
> hacker's,extradition to US
>
> I just think someone from the military should be in the dock as
> well!!! This wasn't a one sided security incident, sloppy admins were
> involved in the 'threat to national security' that Gary Mckinnon
> supposedly posed.
>
> The passwords on the systems weren't set, if it wasn't Gary Mckinnon
> it was going to be some other script kid who got in.
>
> I don't know why the military are making a big deal about what
> happened, when ultimately its their I.T security staff who were the
> main culprits of blame.
>
> Accoriding to Gary Mckinnon, there were lots of script kids in the
> systems at the same time as him, they just decided to pick him out of
> the crowd to make an example of the activity that was going on.
>
> This should be a non-issue that should have been delt with internally
> in the military, the I.T security staff blamed and the script kids
> left to go on their humble way.
>
> When the way of intrusion is this lame, and its obvious the blame is
> on the I.T security staff, then I don't think they should waste
> everyone's time herding one of the script kid across the atlantic,
> just to keep America's nation pride in tact.
>
> Geez fucking christ, it was totally the military's fault, there is no
> get out clause.
>
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Kyrian <kyrian@....org> wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> Thanks to "Exibar" for the (likely) clarification. No issue in converting
>> from metric, incidentally ;-)
>>
>> I will check out the links you provided this evening and make up my own
> mind.
>>
>
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_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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