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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 15:32:43 +0000
From: "Mike Diack" <mike_diack@...mail.com>
To: <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
Take this to a political / middle eastern mailing list.
Let's get back to topic.
-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of
full-disclosure-request@...ts.grok.org.uk
Sent: 05 January 2009 12:00
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
Send Full-Disclosure mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
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Note to digest recipients - when replying to digest posts, please trim your
post appropriately. Thank you.
Today's Topics:
1. Re: The war in Palestine (Prototype This)
2. Re: The war in Palestine (chort)
3. Re: CCIE makes u go nuts?? or is that only nuts get CCIE????
(Some Guy Posting To Full Disclosure)
4. Re: The war in Palestine (j-f sentier)
5. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
6. Re: The (net)war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
7. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
8. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
9. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
10. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
11. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
12. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
13. Re: The war in Palestine (- o z -)
14. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
15. Re: The war in Palestine (Yudi Rosen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:41:43 +0000
From: "Prototype This" <terminale@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID:
<b3d67c1a0901041541v69e3dec9x6742e0d64ec22c3a@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
A flame war never kill children and women. You dont receive a Flame email
while you are sleeping or your 2 month old child get killed by it. If you
dont want flame war you can always quit. With real war , you cannot. Even
there no Mortar Filter or Bullet Catcher in real life.
Personally i filter the n3tshit and ureleet email so i dont read their
bullshit anymore. But tell me how could Palestinian do that (filter bomb
from Isralis bomber to hit an hospital) ? 3000 victims and counting.
2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:22:00 +0200, Avraham Schneider said:
>> Not interested in continuing - was just responding to cheap
>> propaganda started by an idiot.
>
> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
>
> How do you expect the Israelis and Palestinians to stop a *real* war?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:50:59 -0800
From: chort <chort0@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: "Mainbox Notif" <rokadeana@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, Paul Schmehl
<pschmehl_lists_nada@...rr.com>
Message-ID:
<2a66a350901041150p5854687dy4fab485d26ab4394@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com> wrote:
>
> So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
> Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After
> they get a gift for their ppl?
> Thats what frustrating me the most.
> If you get something as a gift. And still want to have more.
> Thats not very thankful....
> Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
>
> When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again.
>
> Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
> them . ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .
You mean like when the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and the IDF forcibly
removed Jewish settlers, but then Palestinians continued to launch rockets
and mortars any way?
I'm not a fan of Israel, and I think a lot of the US problems with the
Muslim population of the world are due to our policy towards Israel, but
give me a freakin break. You can't ridicule one side for spewing
propaganda, then write stuff like that yourself.
Also, for all those whining about civilian casualties in Gaza, yes they're
tragic and highly regrettable. On the other hand, if your enemy is putting
rocket launchers and mortars in civilian buildings and firing them
indiscriminately into civilian areas (not even _pretending_ to aim for
military installations), how exactly would you respond without killing any
civilians? Put another way, if one side of a conflict intentionally
surrounds it's weapons with civilians, should the other side just give up?
--
chort
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:28:44 +0000
From: "Some Guy Posting To Full Disclosure" <fd.leach@...glemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] CCIE makes u go nuts?? or is that only
nuts get CCIE????
To: "Joel Jose" <joeljose420@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Message-ID:
<197321660901040428i7d708f5dx37cec88d8bcd7a5f@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I don't get why this is news. Murder happens all the time.
Has he even been found guilty yet? True it looks like it is, but just
look at that news article! You can perve on some poor guys destruction
because it makes great news. I remember this happened a few years back
to someone else and the guy was found innocent, despite the way the
news channels made it look.
On 1/3/09, Joel Jose <joeljose420@...il.com> wrote:
> http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/35713
>
> It scares the hell out of me..... when i read the topics...and try to
> learn.... i cant help my mind and heart doubting...when will my name
> come in a news like that...... maaannnn... 8 years in cisco... a voice
> architect..... hmmmmm... i was wanting to become like that.... without
> the twists that is... ;(... its scary....
>
>
> lemme see ur responses....
>
>
> Joel.
> --
> "it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your
> years." Abraham Lincoln
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
--
I'm your best best friend.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:27:35 -0500
From: "j-f sentier" <j.sentiar@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID:
<6f80feaf0901042127p5ad20591ged48fa177d2a221c@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well Israel is a very young "nation", in 61 years of existence, they have
been in war with all of them neighborhood, Egypt, Syria, Liban,Jordan,
Palestine.
If someone can find an explication that makes sens, i'll take it.
Also Mr pro-sionist (Avraham Schneider) i dont believe in god nowaday but
i've readed the bible twice and the torah once, so i'm able to segfault your
pro-sionist brain:
"At least 178 Jews and persons of half- or three-quarters-Jewish ancestry
have been awarded the Nobel Prize,1 accounting for 23% of all individual
recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and constituting 37% of all US
recipients2 during the same period. In the scientific research fields of
Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US
percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. (Jews currently make up
approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)
Considering Jews are testifying to the existence of G-d - I would say it is
hard to make your claim under these results..."
Speaking of which god and religion: jewish says: God have elected,chosen the
jewish people (it's written in the Torah.)
Dont forget one thing, the jewish people were also banned and condemned by
this very same god to have pain and
no home for 2000 years.
Because of what ? same thing here, you want always more than we give you.
And even if some son of god would come on this earth one day, you (sionnist
guys) wont be able to reconnize him or you would kill him again, because you
always thought you we're more intelligent than anyone around (which is a
fundamental mistake).
Also once you're not happy on something you play the card of the second
world war deportation at any times,
but hey, you're not the belly-button of the world, dont forget that Gipsys,
black people, gay, arab, and everything that didn't have blond hair and blue
eyes were also killed, this is real history no propaganda.
All this sionist story is pathetic, they make more than one "land hold-up"
in the front of the world and no one say nothing, because they're jew.
Wassup if Iran (for example) was the investigator of this, and would have
provided this very same excuse than tsahal did ?
No of course the occident wouldn't have let this happen or not on this
tonality.
it's pretty funny to see in many places in U-K some huge flag :
"We support Israel."
that remind me why they support so proudly israel :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
Btw i'm not antisemite i like jews, i'm just anti-sionist :)
Cheers
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:59:33 -0600
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID: <DF60E376FFD5914AC0D9AD6D@...intosh-2.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
--On January 4, 2009 4:44:57 AM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
wrote:
> They just want their country back. Thats all.
> It seems that Israeli want to have more, and more. And more.
> Israelis build settlements outside the borders of Israel.
>
> In History there where made some appointments which part belongs to the
> Israeli and which to the Palestinian.
> But it seems that the Israeli want more. Thats are not very thankful, he?
> Please stay between your own borders!
>
> Thats what the Palestinians want.
> And I can understand them. They have to fight back. I should do the same.
>
The Israelis were attacked by all their surrounding neighbors back in the
60's and they beat them all. Since then they have been giving more and
more ground to Palestine, yet the Palestinians continue to attack them.
In 2005 they turned Gaza over to the Palestinians. The thanks they got
was thousands and thousands of rocket and mortar attacks.
The Palestinians are *not* fighting back. They are the aggressors. No
matter how much land Israel gives up, the Palestinians will continue to
attack them, because their goal is to annihilate the country.
Please stop acting as if the Palestinians are poor, innocent bystanders
being attacked for no reason. They are not.
Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
obvious, my opinions are my own
and not those of my employer.
******************************************
WARNING: Check the headers before replying
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:49 -0600
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The (net)war in Palestine
To: "Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)" <lists@...osecurity.ch>,
full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID: <EEF7D3B16CEC5F6CFE71812F@...intosh-2.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
--On January 4, 2009 10:27:19 AM -0600 "Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)"
<lists@...osecurity.ch> wrote:
>
> Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:
>> Yeah, take all these crap out of a full-disclousure, IT security
>> mailing list, please...
> To keep the discussion on topic, what do you think about the israel
> ability to professionaly arrange national-wide SMS spamming to border
> countries?
>
> http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/2008/12/israeli-telephone-commandos-strike.
> html
>
Interesting. At the bottom of Paul's post there is a note.
Note: There are no verifiable external resources listed to support this
claim. -ferg
IOW, this may or may not be true.
Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
obvious, my opinions are my own
and not those of my employer.
******************************************
WARNING: Check the headers before replying
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:20:29 -0600
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Cc: Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman <buanzo@...nzo.com.ar>
Message-ID: <000F0D008D5DC6ECB80F5E3C@...intosh-2.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
--On January 4, 2009 10:05:15 AM -0600 Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
<buanzo@...nzo.com.ar> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> The bloodshed is caused by idiot people, motherfuckers and things like
> that. Stop the damn religion
> of bein g an excuse for your country's desires, ok? Ig god existed, he'd
> probably be thinking about
> nuking the hell out of Earth.
>
God exists, but he doesn't need to think about doing this. Mankind will
do it for him.
Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
obvious, my opinions are my own
and not those of my employer.
******************************************
WARNING: Check the headers before replying
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:05:18 -0600
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID: <D3B114099952429DF5D0CAAA@...intosh-2.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
--On January 4, 2009 4:18:52 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
wrote:
> [quote]
> Since then they have been giving more and more ground to Palestine (...)
> [/quote]
>
> It seems that you don' t read the newspapers.
That's correct. I don't read newspapers. Most of them lie more than they
tell the truth.
> Do you really know what is happening there?
Well, I'm not there, so I'm sure I don't know everything that's going on.
Where are you?
> A fact is that it is the opposite: They (the Israeli) have been giving
> less and less ground to the Palestine Country.
>
Your comment makes no sense at all. Israel just turned over Gaza to the
Palestinians in 2005. Please be specific. What land do you contend that
the Israelis have taken in the past three years?
> Do you read the newspapers? Do you see the news on the TV?
I don't watch TV news. They lie constantly. I get my news by reading
sites on the internet, constantly, daily. I look at source documents and
read stuff that many people find boring but lacks the emotional bs you
find in the major news sites.
> I was suspecting that you had more brains.....
I don't know how you would know what brains I have. You've never met me.
Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
obvious, my opinions are my own
and not those of my employer.
******************************************
WARNING: Check the headers before replying
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:15:49 -0600
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID: <4831DFEBCBBACCBDA358B202@...intosh-2.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
--On January 4, 2009 5:20:05 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
wrote:
> Before this topic I could not imagine that there was a man who is
> against the palestinian.
>
Really? Not one single man? I dare say you can find several men who
would be opposed to any subject you raised, regardless of how
controversial it may be. In the case of the middle east it would be
trivial to find thousands.
> I read my newspapers, I see the news, daily. So I know 'something'
> about the war which was started by the israeli.
What you "know" is what they tell you, which is to say you know very
little about what it actually going on.
> I 'm graduated, so I can say, I'm not ' the stupid guy'. I read my
> books, and I am intereseted in history, filosofy and more.
>
Yet you believe the newspapers and tv. How odd.
> The israeli people are not very populair. History shows that.
If what you say is true, then would it not be logical to assume that the
news might be biased against Israel? After all, if they're not all that
popular, wouldn't journalists have a built-in reason to not cast them in a
good light?
> In 1948
> some ppl helped them, but the israeli screwed it up. That can happen.
> But nobody heard a ' sorry' . And that makes the israeli ' not very
> populair'. (lets say it nice)
>
I'm not sure I follow you here.
> In this topic I read some stories from ppl who believe that the israeli
> invasion is right. Before this I could not imagine that. I did never met
> a person with that evil thoughts.
>
So you think it's evil to shoot back when someone is shooting at you?
Hopefully you live in a peaceful area. In some areas of the world you
wouldn't last an hour.
> I'm confused.
>
That I can agree with.
> All others know that israel is a agressor. It is since they get a part
> of Palestine.
> (The Palestines did not had a choise, they had to give a part of their
> country away)
>
Once again, there was no Palestine for the "Palestinians" to give away.
The Ottomans ruled it until WWI. Then the British took control. Then the
UN decided to give Israel some land there and leave the rest to the people
who had settled there. The so-called Palestinians didn't even exist
except as a collection of people of various origins that shared a common
geographical area.
> What I want to say is this: I can not imagine that anyone can say that
> the israeli are doing right.
> When they where thankful, then there was never a palestinian who drops a
> bomb or became a suicide-bomber.
>
Plainly wrong, but obviously not worth pursuing.
Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
obvious, my opinions are my own
and not those of my employer.
******************************************
WARNING: Check the headers before replying
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:12:49 -0600
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID: <7D2B746D92B92EDB8DDFCDB3@...intosh-2.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
--On January 4, 2009 1:25:29 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
wrote:
>
> So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
> Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After they
> get a gift for their ppl?
What is the "more and more" that you claim they want?
> That's what frustrating me the most.
> If you get something as a gift. And still want to have more.
> That's not very thankful....
> Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
>
No, they are not guests. They have their country. The Palestinians have
theirs.
> When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again.
>
> Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
> them . ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .
>
Palestinians are not innocent. Please stop saying that. They freely
elected Hamas knowing full well what their agenda is. Yasser Arafat was
an Egyptian (actually named Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud
al-Husseini) who emigrated to Palestine. He was related to the Grand
Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, who was a good friend of
Adolph Hitler and approved of his goal to exterminate the Jews. The
Palestinians have never renounced that goal. In fact they refuse to
renounce that goal.
Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
obvious, my opinions are my own
and not those of my employer.
******************************************
WARNING: Check the headers before replying
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:31:34 +0200
From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: "Prototype This" <terminale@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu
Message-ID:
<cd51a8c60901042231k214649bcub1ab3f78fd9fa399@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:41 AM, Prototype This <terminale@...il.com> wrote:
> A flame war never kill children and women. You dont receive a Flame
> email while you are sleeping or your 2 month old child get killed by
> it. If you dont want flame war you can always quit. With real war ,
> you cannot. Even there no Mortar Filter or Bullet Catcher in real
> life.
> Personally i filter the n3tshit and ureleet email so i dont read their
> bullshit anymore. But tell me how could Palestinian do that (filter
> bomb from Isralis bomber to hit an hospital) ? 3000 victims and
> counting.
Easily. They should stop firing rockets on innocent Israeli citizens, stop
sending suicide bombers targeting innocent Israeli citizens, and in general
stop terrorizing innocent Israeli citizens.
At that point, Israel as a country, would not need to use force against the
terror organizations, to defend it's citizens from those daily attacks.
Keep in mind that Israel is targeting terrorists and is saddned by the
injury or death of civilians - with Hamas (the elect government of the
Palestinian people, with over 90% of the votes), they are shamelessly
targetting civilians.
The fact that Israel is so strong counts for the number of dead on the
Palestinian side.
Did you ever stop to think about it? If Israel was really targeting civilian
population, what would have stopped it from just leveling the whole Gaza
strip? You think Israel can't do that? It can, but it cares about the
Palestinian civilian population.
When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's own
civilian population as a first priority.
Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb the
house from the air - demanding that the family members leave immediately.
(the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's house)
2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF pilots
would not want to harm civilians
3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it clear
that if they don't leave, they will die,
4) The family get the point and run away
5) House is fired at
6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
>
>
>
> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:22:00 +0200, Avraham Schneider said:
> >> Not interested in continuing - was just responding to cheap propaganda
> >> started by an idiot.
> >
> > You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
>
It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a Muslim and
defended by a Jew.
Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client you
use, and forget about it.
>
> >
> > How do you expect the Israelis and Palestinians to stop a *real* war?
>
I thought you don't care about this subject as it is off-topic - why are you
asking this question?
>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:51:25 +0200
From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: "Mainbox Notif" <rokadeana@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, Paul Schmehl
<pschmehl_lists_nada@...rr.com>
Message-ID:
<cd51a8c60901042251m6dcfe098keee464502c5a832@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com> wrote:
> Before this topic I could not imagine that there was a man who is against
> the palestinian.
We are against terrorits, not against the Palestinians - they are victims
like us - we both have Hamas to blame for.
>
>
> I read my newspapers, I see the news, daily. So I know 'something' about
> the war which was started by the israeli.
Was started by Hamas, with it's daily rocket fire on Sderot (innocent
Israeli civilan population)
>
> I 'm graduated, so I can say, I'm not ' the stupid guy'. I read my books,
> and I am intereseted in history, filosofy and more.
I think some would disagree with you on your conclusion.
>
>
> The israeli people are not very populair. History shows that. In 1948 some
> ppl helped them, but the israeli screwed it up. That can happen. But
nobody
> heard a ' sorry' . And that makes the israeli ' not very populair'. (lets
> say it nice)
Israelis won a war started by all Arab counties surrounding it - how that
translates to 'screwd it up' baffles me.
>
>
> In this topic I read some stories from ppl who believe that the israeli
> invasion is right. Before this I could not imagine that. I did never met a
> person with that evil thoughts.
I think you should open up the dictionary and reevaluate your understanding
of the word evil. I think you got it confused with 'self defense' - and if
you never met such a person, I guess you live in another planet.
>
>
> I'm confused.
Welcome to earth.
>
>
> In my opinion you can only have this evil thoughts when:
> 1/ you live in Israel (then you see only one side of the story)
> 2/ you live in a country wich is against the jewish people and have a
> censored press. (both are bad, IMO)
> 3/ ????
After you understand that you are misusing the word evil, and should have
used the words 'self defense' instead, I think you will be less 'confused'.
>
>
> All others know that israel is a agressor.
"Another one-way cease-fire that leads to rocket attacks on Israel is not
acceptable," said the President in the Saturday address. "And promises from
Hamas will not suffice."
> It is since they get a part of Palestine.
> (The Palestines did not had a choise, they had to give a part of their
> country away)
Was nevery their country yet Israel gave it to them on a silver plate as
part of the Oslo agreements (supported by the extorsionist formula of
land-for-peace)
>
>
> What I want to say is this: I can not imagine that anyone can say that the
> israeli are doing right.
It will be very hard for me to comment on what you can or can not imagine.
>
> When they where thankful, then there was never a palestinian who drops a
> bomb or became a suicide-bomber.
What about the suicide bombers targetting and killing Israeli women and
children?
>
>
> For all the jewish people: You can live there together. You can live in
the
> Palestinian country. But always remember: You get this country from the
> palestinian. Be thankful. And do not ask more.
> And, do not take more!
Repeating lies don't make them true.
>
>
>
>
> 2009/1/4 Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
>
>> --On January 4, 2009 1:25:29 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
>>> Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After they
>>> get a gift for their ppl?
>>>
>>
>> What is the "more and more" that you claim they want?
>>
>> That's what frustrating me the most.
>>> If you get something as a gift. And still want to have more.
>>> That's not very thankful....
>>> Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
>>>
>>>
>> No, they are not guests. They have their country. The Palestinians have
>> theirs.
>>
>> When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again.
>>>
>>> Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
>>> them . ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .
>>>
>>>
>> Palestinians are not innocent. Please stop saying that. They freely
>> elected Hamas knowing full well what their agenda is. Yasser Arafat was
an
>> Egyptian (actually named Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud
>> al-Husseini) who emigrated to Palestine. He was related to the Grand
Mufti
>> of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, who was a good friend of Adolph
>> Hitler and approved of his goal to exterminate the Jews. The
Palestinians
>> have never renounced that goal. In fact they refuse to renounce that
goal.
>>
>>
>> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
>> obvious, my opinions are my own
>> and not those of my employer.
>> ******************************************
>> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:25:30 -0800
From: - o z - <osgo@...mail.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV1205BE65F8A81E70F3857EDBE10@....gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
> When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend
> it's own
> civilian population as a first priority.
>
> Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
>
> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to
> bomb the
> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave
> immediately.
> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's
> house)
> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the
> IDF pilots
> would not want to harm civilians
> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it
> clear
> that if they don't leave, they will die,
> 4) The family get the point and run away
> 5) House is fired at
> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
Correction #3: The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon,
not 'rocket' -- at the next building over. The kill ratio from a
rocket's shrapnel
would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the
family
and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure.
#4: Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from
the roof.
#5: Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF
#6: Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was
really time
to leave before someone was killed.
>>
>> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
>>>
>>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
>>
> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a
> Muslim and
> defended by a Jew.
> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever
> client you
> use, and forget about it.
Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!!
--
?Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's
attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it
would be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the
feeling of being fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract
men's attention. Show me that Rice is a woman? The only thing she
attracts is reindeer. The States needs to practice the old Soviet
tradition when both single women and single men were not allowed to
take responsible state positions..."
--Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Russian politician, rabid leader of the
Liberal and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:17:25 +0200
From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: "- o z -" <osgo@...mail.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID:
<cd51a8c60901050017v13e0fc62i442ed93643d4323d@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM, - o z - <osgo@...mail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
>
> When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's
>> own
>> civilian population as a first priority.
>>
>> Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
>>
>> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb
the
>> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave immediately.
>> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's house)
>> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF
>> pilots
>> would not want to harm civilians
>> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it
clear
>> that if they don't leave, they will die,
>> 4) The family get the point and run away
>> 5) House is fired at
>> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
>>
>
> Correction #3: The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon,
> not 'rocket' -- at the next building over. The kill ratio from a
rocket's
> shrapnel
> would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the
> family
> and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure.
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052034.html
The IDF Spokesman said that Ghayan's house had served as a weapons silo and
a war room for Hamas. Under the house, according to the IDF, was a tunnel
which was meant to serve as an escape route in case of an Israeli attack.
.
.
.
The IDF has code named such operations "roof knocking," in which the army
informs the residents of s suspected building that they have 10 minutes to
leave the premises. In some cases, residents of suspected houses have been
able to prevent bombing by climbing up to the roof to show that they will
not leave, prompting IDF commanders to call off the strike. In these cases,
Channel 10 reported Thursday, the IAF sometimes launches a relatively
harmless missile at the corner of the roof, avoiding casualties but
successfully dispersing the crowd.
.
.
.
It appears that the "roof knocking" technique was used in the assassination,
but Ghayan decided to stay indoors with his family, and the army opted to
bomb the house anyway.
A lecturer at Gaza's Islamic University, Ghayan, 49, had mentored suicide
bombers and would sometimes go on patrol with Hamas fighters. He was known
for his close ties to the group's military wing and was respected in Gaza
for donning combat fatigues and personally participating in clashes against
Israeli forces. He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide mission
that killed two Israeli settlers in Gaza.
>
> #4: Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from the
> roof.
>
> #5: Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF
>
> #6: Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was
> really time
> to leave before someone was killed.
>
>
>>> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a Muslim
>> and
>> defended by a Jew.
>> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client
you
>> use, and forget about it.
>>
>
> Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!!
Thanks for the help.
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> "Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's
> attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it would
> be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the feeling of being
> fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract men's attention. Show
me
> that Rice is a woman? The only thing she attracts is reindeer. The States
> needs to practice the old Soviet tradition when both single women and
single
> men were not allowed to take responsible state positions..."
>
> --Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Russian politician, rabid leader of the Liberal
> and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
>
>
>
>
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:46:17 +0200
From: "Yudi Rosen" <yr42.lists@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Message-ID:
<12395eaf0901050346h7513bb0aka4e7414ede029a38@...l.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It's interesting to note how the PA Palestinians in the West Bank are living
peacefully - they're not launching attacks on Israeli citizens, and therefor
aren't being attacked back by Israel. In fact, many of them have jobs within
Israeli areas and receive benefits from the Israeli government (my source?
I'm there right now, I've asked to both Jews and Arabs about this).
Yet in Gaza, the ruling party (Hamas) has vowed not just to establish a
Palestinian country, but also to destroy Israel and kill every last Jew. And
they attempt to make good on their words by deliberately and specificly
targeting civillians, even killing other Palestinians in the proccess. In
order to defend it's own people (both Jews and Arabs), Israel launches this
latest battle.
THEN, (hoping to garner some sympathy for the Hamas cause, it seems?),
several people start a flamefight on a IT-security mailing list.
...anyone see what doesn't make sense here?
There are places to flame about this, FD doesn't seem like one of them.
Please let's get back on topic?
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Avraham Schneider <avri.schneider@...il.com
> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM, - o z - <osgo@...mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
>>
>> When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's
>>> own
>>> civilian population as a first priority.
>>>
>>> Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
>>>
>>> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb
>>> the
>>> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave
immediately.
>>> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's
house)
>>> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF
>>> pilots
>>> would not want to harm civilians
>>> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it
>>> clear
>>> that if they don't leave, they will die,
>>> 4) The family get the point and run away
>>> 5) House is fired at
>>> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
>>>
>>
>> Correction #3: The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon,
>> not 'rocket' -- at the next building over. The kill ratio from a
>> rocket's shrapnel
>> would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the
>> family
>> and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure.
>
> http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052034.html
> The IDF Spokesman said that Ghayan's house had served as a weapons silo
> and a war room for Hamas. Under the house, according to the IDF, was a
> tunnel which was meant to serve as an escape route in case of an Israeli
> attack.
> .
> .
> .
> The IDF has code named such operations "roof knocking," in which the army
> informs the residents of s suspected building that they have 10 minutes to
> leave the premises. In some cases, residents of suspected houses have been
> able to prevent bombing by climbing up to the roof to show that they will
> not leave, prompting IDF commanders to call off the strike. In these
cases,
> Channel 10 reported Thursday, the IAF sometimes launches a relatively
> harmless missile at the corner of the roof, avoiding casualties but
> successfully dispersing the crowd.
> .
> .
> .
> It appears that the "roof knocking" technique was used in the
> assassination, but Ghayan decided to stay indoors with his family, and the
> army opted to bomb the house anyway.
> A lecturer at Gaza's Islamic University, Ghayan, 49, had mentored suicide
> bombers and would sometimes go on patrol with Hamas fighters. He was known
> for his close ties to the group's military wing and was respected in Gaza
> for donning combat fatigues and personally participating in clashes
against
> Israeli forces. He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide mission
> that killed two Israeli settlers in Gaza.
>
>
>
>>
>> #4: Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from
the
>> roof.
>>
>> #5: Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF
>>
>> #6: Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was
>> really time
>> to leave before someone was killed.
>>
>>
>>>> 2009/1/4 <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a
Muslim
>>> and
>>> defended by a Jew.
>>> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client
>>> you
>>> use, and forget about it.
>>>
>>
>> Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!!
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's
>> attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it
would
>> be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the feeling of
being
>> fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract men's attention. Show
me
>> that Rice is a woman? The only thing she attracts is reindeer. The States
>> needs to practice the old Soviet tradition when both single women and
single
>> men were not allowed to take responsible state positions..."
>>
>> --Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Russian politician, rabid leader of the Liberal
>> and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
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Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
End of Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
**********************************************
_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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