Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:45:18 +0200
From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@...il.com>
To: "j-f sentier" <j.sentiar@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: The war in Palestine

if the facts I show you are porpaganda, what would you call your lies?

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:36 AM, j-f sentier <j.sentiar@...il.com> wrote:
> Avraham, dude  you 're doing the wrong job, you should sell some thermo-pump
> or something
> you've big skill in selling/propaganda :)
>
> 2009/1/6 Avraham Schneider <avri.schneider@...il.com>
>>
>> The basic facts:
>>
>>    * Israel has always tried to prevent injuring civilians.  The
>> number of innocent Palestinian civilians intentionally targeted by
>> Israel is precisely zero.  The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has been
>> trying to pinpoint the terrorists themselves, many of whom
>> unfortunately hide behind civilians as shields, in their houses and in
>> their mosques.
>>    * Despite the recent violence, Israel continues to facilitate
>> humanitarian assistance to Gaza. In just the past few days, while
>> Hamas has continued to fire rockets into Israel, more than 60
>> truckloads of humanitarian supplies and 105,000 gallons of fuel were
>> transferred to Gaza. Israel also continues to provide 70 percent of
>> Gaza's electricity.
>>    * Since Israel's 2005 full withdrawal from Gaza, Hamas has
>> indiscriminately fired more than 6,500 rockets at Israeli population
>> centers; more than 3000 were fired in 2008 alone.
>>    * Hamas, backed by Iran, has turned Gaza into a daily launching
>> pad of terror against thousands Israeli civilians for years.
>>    * Hamas stores its large cache of illegally smuggled arms in, and
>> launches its daily barrage of missiles from, large civilian population
>> centers placing innocent Palestinian civilians directly in the line of
>> fire.
>>    * No country in the world would tolerate a situation where its
>> civilians are terrorized daily by rockets fired from across the
>> border.
>>    * If American civilians would have become targets to such terror
>> attacks from across the border, does anyone doubt the US would respond
>> very forcefully? Viewed from this perspective, Israel has shown
>> restraint to date.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Ed Carp <erc@...ox.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Larry Seltzer <larry@...ryseltzer.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Also stolen from the Palestinian people: their domain name.
>> >
>> >> Larry Seltzer
>> >> eWEEK.com Security Center Editor
>> >
>> > When someone in the press starts regurgitating lies, I've got to step
>> > in and say something.
>> >
>> > Lie #1: There was such a country named Palestine, for the Palestinian
>> > people.
>> > Fact #1: There never was such a country until 1920 - what is today
>> > referred to as "the Palestinian people" were nomadic tribes that made
>> > their homes in encampments in the deserts of Jordan and Egypt.
>> > "Palestine" was only enacted as a separate protectorate in 1920 by the
>> > British Mandate in 1920.  The region referred to as "Palestine" in
>> > historical terms encompassed a much wider area, comprising Jrodan,
>> > Egypt, and many other Middle Eastern countries.  Until 1920, there
>> > never were any formal boundaries or a formal country.
>> > Lie #2: Israel stole Palestine from the Palestinians.
>> > Fact #2: In 1920, the British Mandate formed Palestine for the intent
>> > of "creating a national home for the Jewish prople" (note this doesn't
>> > say anything about Arabs or Palestinians).  In 1947, the UN approved
>> > splitting Palestine into two parts - one Jewish, one Arab.  In 1948,
>> > the Jewish part of Palestine declared its independence, calling itself
>> > "Israel".  From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel:
>> >
>> > After 1945 the United Kingdom became embroiled in an increasingly
>> > violent conflict with the Jews.[50] In 1947, the British government
>> > withdrew from commitment to the Mandate of Palestine, stating it was
>> > unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews.[51]
>> > The newly created United Nations approved the UN Partition Plan
>> > (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181) on November 29, 1947,
>> > dividing the country into two states, one Arab and one Jewish.
>> > Jerusalem was to be designated an international city – a corpus
>> > separatum – administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its
>> > status.[52] The Jewish community accepted the plan,[53] but the Arab
>> > League and Arab Higher Committee rejected it.[54] On December 1, 1947
>> > the Arab Higher Committee proclaimed a 3-day strike, and Arab
>> > guerrilla attacks began against Jewish targets. Convinced that these
>> > attacks were merely a prelude to full-scale military confrontations
>> > with the regular armies of the Arab states, Ben-Gurion elected to
>> > escalate the military conflict. As such, Haganah embarked on a policy
>> > of "aggressive defense." This strategy was accompanied by economic
>> > subversion and psychological warfare.[55]
>> >
>> > On May 14, 1948, the day before the end of the British Mandate, the
>> > Jewish Agency proclaimed independence, naming the country Israel. The
>> > following day five Arab countries – Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and
>> > Iraq –invaded Israel, launching the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.[56]
>> > Morocco, Sudan, Yemen and Saudi Arabia also sent troops to assist the
>> > invaders. After a year of fighting, a ceasefire was declared and
>> > temporary borders, known as the Green Line, were established. Jordan
>> > annexed what became known as the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and
>> > Egypt took control of the Gaza Strip. Israel was admitted as a member
>> > of the United Nations on May 11, 1949.[57] During the war 711,000
>> > Arabs, according to UN estimates, or about 80% of the previous Arab
>> > population, fled the country.[58] The fate of the Palestinian refugees
>> > today is a major point of contention in the Israeli-Palestinian
>> > conflict.[59][60]
>> >
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