Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:06:52 +0200
From: Avraham Schneider <avri.schneider@...il.com>
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: Cyber War or just Cyber Protest?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com> wrote:

> Israel has one of the most powerful and advanced armies.
> But they cannot find their enemy.

Sure they can - Hamas is hiding in civilian homes, firing rockets from the
rooftops and use civilian homes for weapon storage.


>
> When there is maybe one hamas-soldier, the israeli can't shoot him when hey
> is in a building, the israeli bomb the whole building.

You wrongly assume it is one hamas-"soldier" -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE watch this video, it will explain
a bit...


>
>
> In modern world we use intelligence and we have snipers.

True.

>
> In modern world we do not blow up a whole building when there are probably
> weapons from the enemy in that building.

You need to prove that claim.


>
> And we do not blow up a building when there are civilians inside.

Israel calls up the civilians inside and gives them 20 minutes to evacuate,
they also drop flyers from above alerting civilians to evacuate - this is
something that is unuique in the "modern world" - no country is known to be
this humane at times of war.

Israel has a top priority of protecting it's own citizens - if Hamas uses
the civilians as human shields - Hamas is the one to blame for their deaths.


>
> In modern world we do not shoot at the enemy when he is among civilians.

You need to prive that claim.


>
> And we never bomb the UN or Red Cross. And then say 'sorry,  it was a
> mistake"

In the "medern world" your enemy does not fire anti-tank misiles from a UN
or Red Cross compound at you.


>
> And the next day bomb another hospital. and say 'sorry' again.

We are always sorry for innocent civilian deaths - should we remind you of
the cheering that was done in the streets of Gaza, with candies being
distributed to everyone for the death of 3000 innocent American civilians at
9/11? Why didn't we see them upset for civilian casualties?


>
>
> Why do the israeli not use their army.

Not sure I understand your question? Don't you think Israel could easily
wipe out Gaza with all it's inhibitents in exactly 10 minutes? Why do you
think Israel is risking it's soldier's lives for? Exactly for the reason you
are claiming Israel is ignoring - for protecting civilian lives.



>
> I agree that their army is one of the most powerful, but why not use this?

Do you want them to just Nuke Gaza?


>
>
> And apologize for my english.
> I'm not native english. I'm dutch.
> And I am sure that my english is better then your dutch.

Yes, but you are comparing Apples to Oranges. I am a native Hebrew speaker.
I don't go on Dutch forums and start mumbling nonsense in a lunguage I am
not fluent with.


>
> So please do not attack people because of their english.

I didn't attack you - just mentioned you need to get professional help with
your English.


>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2009/1/16 Avraham Schneider <avri.schneider@...il.com>
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Handrix <handrix@...il.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Avraham Schneider <
>>> avri.schneider@...il.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Israel is fighting terrorists - those terrorists decide to attack
>>>> websites (since they wrongly believe it will help their cause)[1] - Israel
>>>> cares less.
>>>>
>>>
>>>> It is  Cyber-War because those terrorists are fighting a war against
>>>> Israel - and the 'Cyber' is just an additional front for this war - not an
>>>> important one, hence ignored by Israel, but it still is.
>>>>
>>>> If you call blowing yourself up in a bus, trying to kill as many
>>>> passengers as possible - 'protest' - than by your definition one may call
>>>> this 'Cyber-Protest' - but since normal people call those who practice
>>>> suicide bombings 'terrorists', by their definition it is called either
>>>> 'Cyber-Terrorism' - or since there is a war on terror - 'Cyber-War'.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this explains it for you.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  wich terrorisme you'are talking about ?
>>>  You do not understand the concept of terrorisme, the real terrorist is
>>> israel that kills children and women.
>>>  I hope that you will learn more about terrorisme.
>>>
>> First, I'd recommend you get some professional help with your English
>> before you post your opinions in English for everyone to read - it doesn't
>> help your credibility at all.
>>
>> Israel does not target civilians, the terrorists who Israel is fighting
>> against, are.
>> Those terrorists that Israelis are fighting, are using those women and
>> children as human shields and use their homes as a hiding place and for
>> weapon storage.
>>
>> Israel does everything it can to prevent civilian casualties, but it is
>> impossible under these conditions.
>>
>> Israel has as a top priority the life and security of it's own citizens
>> (Muslim, Christian or Jew), and has to defend it's borders from the evil
>> attacks of those terrorists.
>>
>> The fact that those terrorists fail to acheive high numbers of casualties
>> on the Israeli side and Israel is acheiving high numbers of casualties on
>> the Palestinian side is attributed to the fact that Israel is stronger - not
>> that Israel is wrong.
>>
>> I hope that explains it for you.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=&hl=iw&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ynet.co.il%2Farticles%2F0%2C7340%2CL-3656862%2C00.html&sl=iw&tl=en&swap=1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM, andrew. wallace <
>>>> andrew.wallace@...ketmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > 2009/1/14 andrew. wallace <andrew.wallace@...ketmail.com>:
>>>>> > Two sides fighting, a government and some other entity
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Jan G.B. <ro0ot.w00t@...glemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > It's a term that describes an asynchronous warfare between sides
>>>>>
>>>>> *No two sides are fighting each other in Cyber*
>>>>>
>>>>> Conclusion: No Cyber War
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Handrix
>>> Network Engineering/Security
>>> http://securynix.co.cc/
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
>

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