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Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 00:25:15 -0400 From: "Elazar Broad" <elazar@...hmail.com> To: tbiehn@...il.com Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, acastigliola@...m.com Subject: Re: BBC cybercrime probe backfires -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 No, and besides, we all have a /dev/null for whatever we don't want to listen to... On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:04:48 -0400 T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> wrote: >Here's one to mull over. >Is changing someone's mind with relentless logic tantamount to >'breaking and entering' into their mind? > >-Travis > >On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Elazar Broad ><elazar@...hmail.com> wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> I am inclined to agree, except that you still have issues with >the >> electronic equivalent of breaking and entering. Case in point, >> there is a good chance you would be arrested and prosecuted if >you >> opened the door to another persons dwelling which did not have a >> lock installed, and installed a lock and left him/her the key, >> simply because you entered their property without permission. >From >> a ethics perspective, most people would judge you a good >Samaritan, >> you helped someone else protect their property, however the law >> doesn't see it that way, primarily because of the fact that, if >you >> don't have permission to be there, chances are you are not >wanted >> there, no matter what your intentions may be. >> >> As far as hijacking bot nets, one who steals from a thief may be >a >> thief, but one who stops one in the act is a hero. Bot nets are >> always "in the act"... >> >> On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:00:47 -0400 T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> >wrote: >>>More people should hijack machines and push updates to them if >>>their >>>users are unable or unwilling. >>> >>>First an Analogy: >>>If someone's letting money launders use their bank account to >>>launder >>>money out of INACTION that's still illegal, the same SHOULD be >>>true of >>>people who leave their systems unpatched. >>> >>>These machines are negligently left open to be used in >'nefarious >>>criminal activity.' >>> >>>Plan of Action: >>>It's your civic duty to write worms, hijack botnets and patch >>>machines >>>with or without user consent. >>>This is absolutely moral holding to the various tests (is it >self >>>defeating if -everyone- does it etc etc) >>>Just don't get caught doing it. >>> >>>I'm disgusted by the imposition that you'd decry their actions >for >>>being illegal when they were clearly moral and represent a net >>>benefit >>>for society. Haven't you heard of this guy called Gandhi who >>>didn't >>>subscribe to the arbitrary superficial morality provided by the >>>word >>>of the law and only acted on what he knew to be moral? >>> >>>It's time to elevate yourself out of your own mind-slime and >into >>>2009. >>>We all still have a long way to go. >>> >>>-Travis >>> >>>On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Castigliola, Angelo >>><ACastigliola@...m.com> wrote: >>>> Very unorthodox and unethical. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Angelo Castigliola III >>>> EISRM - Application Security Architecture >>>> >>>> Unum >>>> >>>> acastigliola@...m.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own personal >opinions >>>and do not >>>> represent my employer's view in any way. >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk >>>> [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf >Of >>>James >>>> Matthews >>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:10 AM >>>> To: Ivan . >>>> Cc: full-disclosure >>>> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] BBC cybercrime probe backfires >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I agree! Why can't another people hack into computers to >>>show.... This is >>>> such BS and the BBC should be hit hard by what they did. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Ivan . <ivanhec@...il.com> >>>wrote: >>>>> The BBC hacked into 22,000 computers as part of an >>>investigation into >>>>> cybercrime but the move quickly backfired, with legal experts >>>claiming >>>>> the broadcaster broke the law and security gurus saying the >>>experiment >>>>> went too far. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/security/bbc-cybercrime- > >>>probe-backfires/2009/03/13/1236447465056.html >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure- >charter.html >>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://www.astorandblack.com/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Charset: UTF8 >> Version: Hush 3.0 >> Note: This signature can be verified at >https://www.hushtools.com/verify >> >> >wpwEAQECAAYFAkm6x64ACgkQi04xwClgpZhBnQP9Gyf79ajWHLQWT/qwpcTlXRRo2Ae >v >> >RPy7fqKDezxbdW6Wj4+NF01jJKnN1hxvzO6y7UJu8nZb/8MjFjQpptX8cDEOXkSS/eL >2 >> >6BQk6awvUVE3bDaGnSGtKxzRoB/9QacSWIY2aesUei3SO+nLvDY6yDSTgluY297qecO >2 >> 5IDsLvU= >> =uFrf >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> -- >> Easy-to-use, advanced features, flexible phone systems. 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