full-disclosure - Re: VPN providers and any providers in general...

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Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 20:39:38 -0700
From: Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org>
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: VPN providers and any providers in general...

On 10/4/2011 6:35 PM, adam wrote:
> "(Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge - 
> happens so
> rarely that it's basically a hypothetical)."
>
> You do realize that (at least in the US) - contempt is *not* a 
> criminal offense, don't you?
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:05 PM, <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu 
> <mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>> wrote:
>
>     On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 03:15:02 EDT, Jeffrey Walton said:
>     > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:06 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l@...il.com
>     <mailto:tyra3l@...il.com>> wrote:
>
>     > > As I mentioned before it is hard to expect that a VPN provider
>     will
>     > > risk his company for your $11.52/month, and maybe they would
>     try it
>     > > for some lesser case, but what Lulsec did was grant, so I'm not
>     > > surprised that they bent.
>     >
>     > "Alleged"
>
>     Yes. So?  In most jurisdictions, "alledged" and "probable cause"
>     is sufficient
>     to get a court to sign off on a subpoena and/or warrants.
>
>     "Dear Judge:  On Aug 23, a hacker using the handle
>     "JustFellOutOfTree" did
>     violate Section N, Clause X.Y of the criminal code by hacking into
>     BigStore.com.  The connection was traced back to the provider
>     VPNs-R-Us.  We
>     would like a court order requesting VPNs-R-Us to provide any and all
>     information they may have regarding this user".
>
>     That will usually do it (after bulked up to about 3 pages with
>     legalese and
>     dotting the t's and crossing the i's).
>
>     The next morning, the manager at VPNs-R-Us gets to his office, and
>     finds
>     two guys with guns and a signed piece of paper.  At which point
>     one of two
>     things will happen:
>
>     1) the guy rolls and gives up all the info.
>     2) the guy calls his lawyer and makes sure that he gives up all
>     the required info,
>     and not one byte more.
>
>     (Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge -
>     happens so
>     rarely that it's basically a hypothetical).
>
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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That actually depends on the situation, contempt can be criminal. And 
frankly if you refuse a court order for information like that, the LE 
officers will just seize it by gunpoint legally, then arrest you.

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