Date:	Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:02 +0100
From:	Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@....linux.org.uk>
To:	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc:	Pekka Enberg <penberg@...helsinki.fi>, Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>,
	Joe Perches <joe@...ches.com>, Ben Dooks <ben-linux@...ff.org>,
	linux-arm-kernel@...ts.arm.linux.org.uk,
	David John <davidjon@...ontk.org>,
	Erik Mouw <mouw@...linux.org>,
	kernel list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Krzysztof Halasa <khc@...waw.pl>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: Add "L: linux-arm@...r.kernel.org" to ARM
	sections

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:54:26AM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:47:36 +0100
> Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@....linux.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:35:11AM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > > O> Let me make this clear, yet again.  The lists are *not* subscriber only
> > > > lists.  We do NOT reject non-subscriber posts for no reason what so ever
> > > > (although it does seem to have happened, both Erik and myself both
> > > > contend that we have never rejected a mailing intentionally without
> > > > giving a reason - whether the original poster receives that reason is
> > > > a function of how buggy mailman is.)
> > > 
> > > Does it matter one iota whether mailman is rejecting the posts or you
> > > are. It's a long standing nuisance. And if the software is that buggy why
> > > not move it to vger which works and has its own active maintainers which
> > > will free up your time ?
> > 
> > As I've already pointed out in previous threads, people believe that they
> > should talk to me about ARM mailing lists.  Proven, multiple times by
> > multiple people.
> 
> You are missing the point entirely. Actually with your comment you are
> now missing two points
> 
> 1. The point in the email that you ignored: Nobody cared whether mailman
> is buggy or the list admins are not doing their job or the list is badly
> configured. They just care it doesn't let them easily cc stuff over. In
> reality they probably blame the admins regardless of the real cause.
> 
> 2. People talk to you on the ARM list because you don't seem to respond
> on the vger arm list ?

You've totally missed the point.

When people have a problem with the existing lists, they talk to me and
only me about it.  I'm *not* talking about normal list traffic.

What I'm saying is that even if we did move over to vger, people would
NOT talk to davem about problems.  Their first stop reaction would be
to talk to me.

> > Moving them to vger isn't going to change that.  The only effect that
> > it'll have is make me frustrated because I'm then constantly bothered
> > by people who can't do the sodding research to work out who they should
> > be talking to.
> 
> Reality check. A mailing list name such as "linux-arm" is a tag attached
> to an object, its a handle nothing more. Moving the object behind that
> handle to vger as a vger linux-arm list doesn't change things in the way
> you wish to pretend.

Correction - it does.  I can only assume that this is a continuation of
your above misunderstanding.

> Most folks working on the kernel are far too busy to spend their time on
> that, and I'm curious how you could even arrive at such a ludicrous
> conclusion - what is the motiviation of this evil plot you see ?

>From what I've seen, that is also far from reality.  Some kernel people
seem to have ample spare time to plot like this.
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