linux-kernel - Re: ARM promising platform, needs to learn from PC.

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:07:33 +0100
From:	Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <luke.leighton@...il.com>
To:	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: ARM promising platform, needs to learn from PC.

this one's again a very good statement of the problem, with hints in
it that say what the solution is ["accept common open standards"].

short version: punish selfishness [back of the patch queue i.e.
never], and reward cooperation [front of the patch queue].

only you can lay down the law on this one, linus.  nobody else.

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2386322&cid=37133042

"Actually it is the other way around. The x86 platform is mostly based
on open standards. There are more 486-compatible clones than you may
realise. ARM, on the other hand, is strongly proprietary. There are no
clones at all. The ARM fragmentation has occurred because of a lack of
open standards - while the PC guys were standardising PCI, USB and
VGA, every ARM licensee was reinventing the wheel to give their own
SoC the features that nobody else had. While the core ISA is always
the same, the system architecture is not.

When ARM CPUs were only used for embedded systems, this was fine,
because each vendor could provide a BSP for each supported OS. Now
that ARM CPUs are being used in general-purpose computers like Windows
Phone 7 and Android handsets, the fragmentation has become an issue
preventing users from loading alternative firmware. Clearly, this is a
concern for Linus Torvalds (and Linux supporters who understand the
issue) as it causes pain for kernel development and makes it
essentially impossible to produce a single OS that could be installed
(say) on any ARM-based smartphone."

 or a tablet.  or a laptop.  or a netbook.  or a smartbook.  or a
[dumb]phone.  or a GSM module.  or a 3G module.  or a Marvell WIFI
module.  or a real-time Engine Control Unit.  or an industrial
embedded controller.

 someone else pointed out that you *can't* have "common hardware
design" right across the board... but you can at least have "common
hardware designs" across areas that are... well... common!   hardware
ODMs could group together based around tablets.  the situation where
there is one design of 7in tablet motherboard per OEM per CPU, one
design of 10in tablet motherboard per OEM per CPU, is bloody
ridiculous!

anyway.  enough.  i've made the point.  i look forward to hearing from
you on this, linus.  even if it's "hmmm..." or "go away you insane
babbling idiot!".

btw - anyone else got any good ideas?

l.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/