linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 0/6] [RFC] Proposal for optimistic suspend idea.

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Date:	Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:19:58 -0700
From:	John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>
To:	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
Cc:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...k.pl>, arve@...roid.com,
	markgross@...gnar.org, Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>,
	amit.kucheria@...aro.org, farrowg@...ibm.com,
	"Dmitry Fink (Palm GBU)" <Dmitry.Fink@...m.com>,
	linux-pm@...ts.linux-foundation.org, khilman@...com,
	Magnus Damm <damm@...nsource.se>, mjg@...hat.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/6] [RFC] Proposal for optimistic suspend idea.

On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 02:09 +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2011, John Stultz wrote:
> > Another use case I've heard about are systems that have firmware updates
> 
> Yes, I have heard about people wanting O_PONIES ...

O_PONIES_WITH_HEADMOUNTED_WOODCUTTING_LASERS?

> > that are remotely triggered. Should the system go into suspend while the
> > firmware update is going on, you end up with a brick.
> 
> If someone came up with a firmware update mechanism which is not
> coping with unexpected interruption of any kind, then wakelocks are
> not making any difference.
> 
> Please collect the resulting bricks and shove them back to those who
> thought that remote firmware updates do not have to be engineered and
> the resulting fallout can be blamed on the kernel.
> 
> We have proper mechanisms in place to handle such stuff, but they need
> proper overall design and definitely a bit more brain usage than just
> yelling "wakelock".

And it would be great if some of that brain usage was spent to review
and critique what I'm actually proposing, rather then just yelling
"wakelock". :P

I apologize for being probably too verbose in my mails, but I did
originally admit that the firmware update issue is a simpler problem and
doesn't necessarily need the same solution as the races around my
nightly backups. But I do think that some thought should be put into the
different use cases that seem to desire similar things, so that an
appropriate design can be created, instead of a collection of short-term
hacks.

More brain usage, and proper design. At least with that, I think we
agree. :)

thanks
-john


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