Date:	Fri, 18 Jan 2013 22:06:28 +0800
From:	Alex Shi <alex.shi@...el.com>
To:	Morten Rasmussen <morten.rasmussen@....com>
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Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 17/22] sched: packing small tasks in wake/exec balancing

On 01/16/2013 11:08 PM, Morten Rasmussen wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 07:32:49AM +0000, Alex Shi wrote:
>> On 01/15/2013 01:00 AM, Morten Rasmussen wrote:
>>>>> Why multiply rq->util by nr_running?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's take an example where rq->util = 50, nr_running = 2, and putil =
>>>>>>> 10. In this case the value of putil doesn't really matter as vacancy
>>>>>>> would be negative anyway since FULL_UTIL - rq->util * nr_running is -1.
>>>>>>> However, with rq->util = 50 there should be plenty of spare cpu time to
>>>>>>> take another task.
>>>>>
>>>>> for this example, the util is not full maybe due to it was just wake up,
>>>>> it still is possible like to run full time. So, I try to give it the
>>>>> large guess load.
>>> I don't see why rq->util should be treated different depending on the
>>> number of tasks causing the load. rq->util = 50 means that the cpu is
>>> busy about 50% of the time no matter how many tasks contibute to that
>>> load.
>>>
>>> If nr_running = 1 instead in my example, you would consider the cpu
>>> vacant if putil = 6, but if nr_running > 1 you would not. Why should the
>>> two scenarios be treated differently?
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, why multiply putil by 8? rq->util must be very close to 0 for
>>>>>>> vacancy to be positive if putil is close to 12 (12.5%).
>>>>>
>>>>> just want to pack small util tasks, since packing is possible to hurt
>>>>> performance.
>>> I agree that packing may affect performance. But why don't you reduce
>>> FULL_UTIL instead of multiplying by 8? With current expression you will
>>> not pack a 10% task if rq->util = 20 and nr_running = 1, but you would
>>> pack a 6% task even if rq->util = 50 and the resulting cpu load is much
>>> higher.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the threshold has no strong theory or experiment support. I had
>> tried cyclitest which Vicent used, the case's load avg is too small to
>> be caught. so just use half of Vicent value as 12.5%. If you has more
>> reasonable value, let me know.
>>
>> As to nr_running engaged as multiple mode. it's base on 2 reasons.
>> 1, load avg/util need 345ms to accumulate as 100%. so, if a tasks is
>> cost full cpu time, it still has 345ms with rq->util < 1.
> 
> I agree that load avg may not be accurate, especially for new tasks. But
> why use it if you don't trust its value anyway?
> 
> The load avg (sum/period) of a new task will reach 100% instantly if the
> task is consuming all the cpu time it can get. An old task can reach 50%
> within 32ms. So you should fairly quickly be able to see if it is a
> light task or not. You may under-estimate its load in the beginning, but
> only for a very short time.

this packing is done in wakup, even no 'a very short time' here:)
> 
>> 2, if there are more tasks, like 2 tasks running on one cpu, it's
>> possible to has capacity to burn 200% cpu time, while the biggest
>> rq->util is still 100%.
> 
> If you want to have a better metric for how much cpu time the task on
> the runqueue could potentially use, I would suggest using
> cfs_rq->runnable_load_avg which is the load_avg_contrib sum of all tasks
> on the runqueue. It would give you 200% in your example above.

runnable_load_avg also need much time to accumulate its value, not
better than util.
> 
> On the other hand, I think rq->util is fine for this purpose. If
> rq->util < 100% you know for sure that cpu is not fully utilized no
> matter how many tasks you have on the runqueue. So as long as rq->util
> is well below 100% (like < 50%) it should be safe to pack more small
> tasks on that cpu even if it has multiple tasks running already.
> 
>>
>> Consider to figure out precise utils is complicate and cost much. I do
>> this simple calculation. It is not very precise, but it is efficient and
>> more bias toward performance.
> 
> It is indeed very biased towards performance. I would prefer more focus
> on saving power in a power scheduling policy :)
> 

Agree, and I don't refuse to change the criteria for power. :) but
without reliable benchmarks or data, everything is guess.

-- 
Thanks
    Alex
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