Date:	Wed, 07 Oct 2015 18:43:32 -0700
From:	Laura Abbott <laura@...bott.name>
To:	Rob Herring <robherring2@...il.com>,
	Andrew Andrianov <andrew@...mnt.org>
CC:	Rob Herring <robh+dt@...nel.org>,
	Frank Rowand <frowand.list@...il.com>,
	Sumit Semwal <sumit.semwal@...aro.org>, arve@...roid.com,
	Riley Andrews <riandrews@...roid.com>,
	John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>,
	Grant Likely <grant.likely@...aro.org>,
	"devicetree@...r.kernel.org" <devicetree@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Tom Gall <tom.gall@...aro.org>,
	Colin Cross <ccross@...gle.com>, devel@...verdev.osuosl.org,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	romlem@...gle.com, Mitchel Humpherys <mitchelh@...eaurora.org>,
	"linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org" 
	<linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org>,
	Feng Tang <feng.tang@...el.com>,
	Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@...sung.com>,
	a.makarov@...ule.ru, a.bogdanova@...ule.ru
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 1/2] WIP: Devicetree bindings for Ion

On 10/7/15 11:36 AM, Rob Herring wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:36 AM, Andrew <andrew@...mnt.org> wrote:
>> On 2015-10-07 02:01, Laura Abbott wrote:
>>>
>>> On 10/6/15 3:35 PM, Rob Herring wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Laura Abbott <labbott@...oraproject.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Laura Abbott <laura@...bott.name>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This adds a base set of devicetree bindings for the Ion memory
>>>>> manager. This supports setting up the generic set of heaps and
>>>>> their properties.
>>>>>
>>>>> Signed-off-by: Laura Abbott <laura@...bott.name>
>>>>> Signed-off-by: Andrew Andrianov <andrew@...mnt.org>
>>>>> ---
>>>>>    drivers/staging/android/ion/devicetree.txt | 53
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no issue with this going in here, but I do have lots of issues
>>>> with this binding.
>>>>
>>>>>    1 file changed, 53 insertions(+)
>>>>>    create mode 100644 drivers/staging/android/ion/devicetree.txt
>>>>>
>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/staging/android/ion/devicetree.txt
>>>>> b/drivers/staging/android/ion/devicetree.txt
>>>>> new file mode 100644
>>>>> index 0000000..4a0c941
>>>>> --- /dev/null
>>>>> +++ b/drivers/staging/android/ion/devicetree.txt
>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@
>>>>> +Ion Memory Manager
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Ion is a memory manager that allows for sharing of buffers via dma-buf.
>>>>> +Ion allows for different types of allocation via an abstraction called
>>>>> +a 'heap'. A heap represents a specific type of memory. Each heap has
>>>>> +a different type. There can be multiple instances of the same heap
>>>>> +type.
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Required properties for Ion
>>>>> +
>>>>> +- compatible: "linux,ion"
>>>>> +
>>>>> +All child nodes of a linux,ion node are interpreted as heaps
>>>>> +
>>>>> +required properties for heaps
>>>>> +
>>>>> +- linux,ion-heap-id: The Ion heap id used for allocation selection
>>>>> +- linux,ion-heap-type: Ion heap type defined in ion.h
>>>>> +- linux,ion-heap-name: Human readble name of the heap
>>>>> +
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Optional properties
>>>>> +- memory-region: A phandle to a memory region. Required for DMA heap
>>>>> type
>>>>> +(see reserved-memory.txt for details on the reservation)
>>>>> +- linux,ion-heap-align: Alignment for the heap.
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Example:
>>>>> +
>>>>> +       ion {
>>>>> +               compatbile = "linux,ion";
>>>>> +               #address-cells = <1>;
>>>>> +               #size-cells = <0>;
>>>>> +
>>>>> +               ion-system-heap {
>>>>> +                       linux,ion-heap-id = <0>;
>>>>> +                       linux,ion-heap-type = <ION_SYSTEM_HEAP_TYPE>;
>>>>> +                       linux,ion-heap-name = "system";
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How does this vary across platforms? Is all of this being pushed down
>>>> to DT, because there is no coordination of this at the kernel ABI
>>>> level across platforms. In other words, why can't heap 0 be hardcoded
>>>> as system heap in the driver. It seems to me any 1 of these 3
>>>> properties could be used to derive the other 2.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right now there is no guarantee heap IDs will be the same across
>>> platforms. The heap IDs are currently part of the userspace ABI
>>> as well since userspace clients must pass in a mask of the heap
>>> IDs to allocate from. If we assume all existing clients could change,
>>> heaps such as the system heap could be mandated to have the same
>>> heap ID but we'd still run into problems if you have multiple
>>> heaps of the same type (e.g. multiple carveouts)
>
> Vendors largely ignore the kernel-userspace ABI and anything in
> staging is not a ABI. So arguments about what the ABI is currently is
> pointless IMO.
>
> Pushing an inconsistent kernel ABI to DT is not the answer.
>

I'm not sure I agree it's inconsistent because it varies across
platforms. IRQs vary across platforms (yes I know something something
hardware description). Vendors really should be caring about ABIs
and it's kind of a chicken and egg problem about when staging
driver ABIs should be considered stable. Perhaps it should be
"Pushing bad kernel ABIs to DT is not the answer" which is a
fair objection to Ion.

>>
>> I don't really like the idea of enforcing any IDs here. As of now
>> heap ids are generally something VERY platform-specific
>> (or even product-specific). Personally I'd prefer something like this
>> for userspace apps:
>>
>> int id1 = ion_get_heap_id("camera");
>> if (id1 < 0) {
>>        fprintf(stderr, "Invalid heap id");
>>        exit(1);
>> }
>>
>> int id2 = ion_get_heap_id("backup-heap");
>> if (id2 < 0) {
>>        fprintf(stderr, "Invalid heap id");
>>        exit(1);
>> }
>
> We've learned that creating number spaces like this are bad (irqs,
> gpios, /dev nodes). We should move away from that. Why should
> userspace care about IDs or what the IDs are? An ID is just encoding
> certain implicit requirements. So are the strings here. Users should
> express what capabilities, restrictions, etc. they have, and then the
> kernel can find the best heap.
>

I'd argue that the heap IDs are expressing capabilities and
restrictions. A heap ID for camera could be contiguous on
one system and discontiguous on another based on the system.
The user only gives the ID, not the type so it's ultimately
up to the kernel to decide what that heap ID means on a particular
system. Ion allows or'ing of heap IDs together and the kernel
selects them currently based on priority. What's your idea for
expressing the capabilities without resorting IDs?

I'm going to give some more thought to this but I think I
might look into just having each heap be a compatible
string. This might fit in better with something that
belongs in devicetree: each heap is describing a platform
capability (discontiguous memory, CMA, carved out, releases
bees etc.). Anything outside of a compatible string can
probably be pulled back into the kernel.

Thanks,
Laura
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