linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v2] barriers: introduce smp_mb__release

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Wed, 21 Oct 2015 12:56:12 -0700
From:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Cc:	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@...erman.id.au>,
	linux-arch@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Anton Blanchard <anton@...ba.org>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@...ba.org>,
	linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] barriers: introduce smp_mb__release_acquire and
 update documentation

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 09:36:44PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:29:23PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:24:52AM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 04:34:51PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > There is also the question of whether the barrier forces ordering
> > > > of unrelated stores, everything initially zero and all accesses
> > > > READ_ONCE() or WRITE_ONCE():
> > > > 
> > > > 	P0		P1		P2		P3
> > > > 	X = 1;		Y = 1;		r1 = X;		r3 = Y;
> > > > 					some_barrier();	some_barrier();
> > > > 					r2 = Y;		r4 = X;
> > > > 
> > > > P2's and P3's ordering could be globally visible without requiring
> > > > P0's and P1's independent stores to be ordered, for example, if you
> > > > used smp_rmb() for some_barrier().  In contrast, if we used smp_mb()
> > > > for barrier, everyone would agree on the order of P0's and P0's stores.
> > > 
> > > Oh!?
> > 
> > Behold sequential consistency, worshipped fervently by a surprisingly
> > large number of people!  Something about legacy proof methods, as near
> > as I can tell.  ;-)
> 
> But how can smp_mb() guarantee anything about P[01]? There is but the
> single store, which can race against P[23] arbitrarily. There is nothing
> to order.

Indeed, if your barrier is only acting locally, there is no way that
you can order the two stores.  However, some barriers act non-locally,
and this non-local action can order the stores.  This non-locality is
"cumulativity" in the PowerPC docs.

And x86 can also order P0's and P1's stores, courtesy of the "T" in "TSO".

> Maybe I'm confused again..

They say that confusion is the most productive frame of mind...

							Thanx, Paul

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/