linux-kernel - Re: [RFC/RFT patch 0/7] timekeeping: Unify clock MONOTONIC and clock BOOTTIME

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Date:   Thu, 1 Mar 2018 19:41:35 +0100 (CET)
From:   Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
To:     Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
cc:     LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
        John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>,
        Petr Mladek <pmladek@...e.com>,
        Mark Salyzyn <salyzyn@...roid.com>,
        Prarit Bhargava <prarit@...hat.com>,
        Sergey Senozhatsky <sergey.senozhatsky@...il.com>,
        Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@...il.com>,
        Kevin Easton <kevin@...rana.org>,
        Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@...il.com>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>
Subject: Re: [RFC/RFT patch 0/7] timekeeping: Unify clock MONOTONIC and clock
 BOOTTIME

On Thu, 1 Mar 2018, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de> wrote:
> >
> > This really needs lot of testing, documentation updates and more input from
> > userspace folks to make a final decision.
> 
> Honestly, I don't think we'd get the testing this kind of change needs
> except by just trying it.
> 
> I'm willing to merge this in the 4.17 merge window, with the
> understanding that if people end up reporting issues, we may just have
> to revert it all, and chalk it up to a learning experience - and add
> the appropriate commentary in the kernel code about exactly what it
> was that depended on that MONO/BOOT difference.

Fair enough. So we maybe just merge the first two patches and merge the
cleanups and consolidation patches when we feel good enough.

I surely can queue the whole lot in next, but from PTI the experience I
know how good the test coverage is. 4.14.stable would be the ideal testing
ground. /me runs fast and hides

> One non-technical thing I would ask: use some other word than
> "conflate". Maybe just "combine". Or better yet, "unify".
> 
> "Conflate" technically and historically means the same thing as
> combine, but has very much gathered a side meaning of "confuse".
> 
> So yes, "conflate" is indeed about mixing or combining, but it's
> typically used in the sense of a *bad* combination or mixing. So
> "trying to conflate two issues" means "trying to mix two issues that
> are not the same into one".
> 
> So "unify" and "conflate" mean both the same thing and almost exactly
> the opposite at the same time.
> 
> And yes, you will find dictionaries (and linguists) that hold purely
> to the old meaning. As always, there are fogeys that can't get over
> the fact that meanings meander and change.

I'm old enough to have learned that conflate means unify or combine, but
I'm still not old enough to be stubborn about it :)

Thanks,

	tglx