Date:   Wed, 21 Aug 2019 09:15:23 +0200
From:   Vitaly Kuznetsov <vkuznets@...hat.com>
To:     Michael Kelley <mikelley@...rosoft.com>,
        Tianyu Lan <lantianyu1986@...il.com>
Cc:     Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Tianyu Lan <Tianyu.Lan@...rosoft.com>,
        "linux-arch\@vger.kernel.org" <linux-arch@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-hyperv\@vger.kernel.org" <linux-hyperv@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-kernel\@vger kernel org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
        the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@...nel.org>,
        KY Srinivasan <kys@...rosoft.com>,
        Haiyang Zhang <haiyangz@...rosoft.com>,
        Stephen Hemminger <sthemmin@...rosoft.com>,
        Sasha Levin <sashal@...nel.org>,
        Daniel Lezcano <daniel.lezcano@...aro.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        "ashal\@kernel.org" <ashal@...nel.org>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 0/2] clocksource/Hyper-V: Add Hyper-V specific sched clock function

Michael Kelley <mikelley@...rosoft.com> writes:

> From: Vitaly Kuznetsov <vkuznets@...hat.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 1:34 AM
>> 
>> Michael Kelley <mikelley@...rosoft.com> writes:
>> 
>> > From: Tianyu Lan <lantianyu1986@...il.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:41 AM
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 8:13 PM Vitaly Kuznetsov <vkuznets@...hat.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org> writes:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 12:59:26PM +0200, Vitaly Kuznetsov wrote:
>> >> > >> lantianyu1986@...il.com writes:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> > From: Tianyu Lan <Tianyu.Lan@...rosoft.com>
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Hyper-V guests use the default native_sched_clock() in pv_ops.time.sched_clock
>> >> > >> > on x86.  But native_sched_clock() directly uses the raw TSC value, which
>> >> > >> > can be discontinuous in a Hyper-V VM.   Add the generic hv_setup_sched_clock()
>> >> > >> > to set the sched clock function appropriately.  On x86, this sets
>> >> > >> > pv_ops.time.sched_clock to read the Hyper-V reference TSC value that is
>> >> > >> > scaled and adjusted to be continuous.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Hypervisor can, in theory, disable TSC page and then we're forced to use
>> >> > >> MSR-based clocksource but using it as sched_clock() can be very slow,
>> >> > >> I'm afraid.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> On the other hand, what we have now is probably worse: TSC can,
>> >> > >> actually, jump backwards (e.g. on migration) and we're breaking the
>> >> > >> requirements for sched_clock().
>> >> > >
>> >> > > That (obviously) also breaks the requirements for using TSC as
>> >> > > clocksource.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > IOW, it breaks the entire purpose of having TSC in the first place.
>> >> >
>> >> > Currently, we mark raw TSC as unstable when running on Hyper-V (see
>> >> > 88c9281a9fba6), 'TSC page' (which is TSC * scale + offset) is being used
>> >> > instead. The problem is that 'TSC page' can be disabled by the
>> >> > hypervisor and in that case the only remaining clocksource is MSR-based
>> >> > (slow).
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Yes, that will be slow if Hyper-V doesn't expose hv tsc page and
>> >> kernel uses MSR based
>> >> clocksource. Each MSR read will trigger one VM-EXIT. This also happens on other
>> >> hypervisors (e,g, KVM doesn't expose KVM clock). Hypervisor should
>> >> take this into
>> >> account and determine which clocksource should be exposed or not.
>> >>
>> >
>> > We've confirmed with the Hyper-V team that the TSC page is always available
>> > on Hyper-V 2016 and later, and on Hyper-V 2012 R2 when the physical
>> > hardware presents an InvariantTSC.
>> 
>> Currently we check that TSC page is valid on every read and it seems
>> this is redundant, right? It is either available on boot or not. I can
>> only imagine migrating a VM to a non-InvariantTSC host when Hyper-V will
>> likely disable the page (and we can get reenlightenment notification
>> then).
>
> I think Hyper-V can have brief intervals when the TSC page is not valid, so
> the code checks for the "sequence" value being zero.   Otherwise, yes, it
> should always be there or not be there.  Is there some other validity
> check on every read that you are thinking of?
>

No, it's this one. In case these 'invalidity periods' are real there's
nothing to improve in the current code.

>> 
>> >  But the Linux Kconfig's are set up so
>> > the TSC page is not used for 32-bit guests -- all clock reads are synthetic MSR
>> > reads.  For 32-bit, this set of changes will add more overhead because the
>> > sched clock reads will now be MSR reads.
>> >
>> > I would be inclined to fix the problem, even with the perf hit on 32-bit Linux.
>> > I don’t have any data on 32-bit Linux being used in a Hyper-V guest, but it's not
>> > supported in Azure so usage is pretty small.  The alternative would be to continue
>> > to use the raw TSC value on 32-bit, even with the risk of a discontinuity in case of
>> > live migration or similar scenarios.
>> 
>> The issue needs fixing, I agree, however using MSR based clocksource as
>> sched clock may give us too big of a performance hit (not sure who cares
>> about 32 bit guest performance nowadays but still). What stops us from
>> enabling TSC page for 32 bit guests if it is available?
>
> I talked to KY Srinivasan for any history about TSC page on 32-bit.  He said
> there was no technical reason not to implement it, but our focus was always
> 64-bit Linux, so the 32-bit was much less important.  Also, on 32-bit Linux,
> the required 64x64 multiply and shift is more complex and takes more
> more cycles (compare 32-bit implementation of mul_u64_u64_shr vs.
> the 64-bit implementation), so the win over a MSR read is less.  I
> don't know of any actual measurements being made to compare vs.
> MSR read.

VMExit is 1000 CPU cycles or so, I would guess that TSC page
calculations are better. Let me try to build 32bit kernel and do some
quick measurements.

-- 
Vitaly

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