Date:	Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:43:03 +0000
From:	Jarek Poplawski <jarkao2@...il.com>
To:	Ferenc Wagner <wferi@...f.hu>
Cc:	netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: IP-less bridge as a martian source

On Sun, Nov 02, 2008 at 12:55:56AM +0100, Ferenc Wagner wrote:
> Jarek Poplawski <jarkao2@...il.com> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:56:17PM +0100, Ferenc Wagner wrote:
> >
> >> Jarek Poplawski <jarkao2@...il.com> writes:
> >> 
> >>>>> Ferenc Wagner <wferi@...f.hu> writes:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I expected an IP-less bridge interface to pick up no IP
> >>>>>> packets, but apparently this isn't the case: broadcast packets
> >>>>>> with destination address 255.255.255.255 are reported as
> >>>>>> martians by the 2.6.18 kernel, which I find counterintuitive (I
> >>>>>> know 2.6.18 is rather old, but that's the one supported by Xen).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>   1. Is this the expected behaviour?
> >>>
> >>> with IP disabled you shouldn't have any martians!
> >> 
> >> In my case, the bridge itself (?) has no IP addresses assigned, but
> >> an other interface (which isn't a bridge port) does have.  In other
> >> words, the only network interface of the host is a bond interface
> >> aggregating the two physical Ethernet interfaces; the two IP
> >> addresses of the host are assigned to this bond0.
> >> 
> >> bond0 is also the raw interface of several .1q VLAN interfaces,
> >> which are ports of bridges (there is one bridge for each VLAN but
> >> the native above).  The other ports of the bridges are the virtual
> >> interfaces of the Xen guests running on this host.  If I run ping
> >> -b 255.255.255.255 on one such guest, that gives a "martian source
> >> 255.255.255.255" warning on the given bridge.  Even though
> >> 255.255.255.255 is the destination address of that ping packet...
> >> 
> >> And this happens on 2.6.26.6, too.  Can't it come from
> >> ip_mkroute_input instead of ip_route_input_slow?
> >
> > I doubt it.
> >
> > 1941 static int ip_route_input_slow(struct sk_buff *skb, __be32 daddr, __be32 saddr,
> > 1942                                u8 tos, struct net_device *dev)
> > 1943 {
> > ...
> > 1963         /* IP on this device is disabled. */
> > 1964
> > 1965         if (!in_dev)
> > 1966                 goto out;
> > 1967
> > 1968         /* Check for the most weird martians, which can be not detected
> > 1969            by fib_lookup.
> > 1970          */
> > 1971
> > 1972         if (ipv4_is_multicast(saddr) || ipv4_is_lbcast(saddr) ||
> > 1973             ipv4_is_loopback(saddr))
> > 1974                 goto martian_source;
> > 1975
> > 1976         if (daddr == htonl(0xFFFFFFFF) || (saddr == 0 && daddr == 0))
> > 1977                 goto brd_input;
> >
> > This means that even with IP enabled device ip_mkroute_input() should
> > be skipped. So it seems it's not about 255.255.255.255 generally, but
> > just about source address. You didn't give any examples of these
> > warnings, but I guess it's not a 0 address which is most popular with
> > 255.255.255.255.
> 
> Indeed not, sorry.  If I ping -b 255.255.255.255 on a virtual machine
> with IP 193.225.14.155, whose virtual interface is a port of br891:
> 
> martian source 255.255.255.255 from 193.225.14.155, on dev br891

Hmm, I still have doubts if this bridge is IP or not IP (iconfigs of
br891 and its components could help). It seems there has to be some
IP seen on this br891 yet, and then I wonder if it's not a fake problem
with input of the bridge surprised by a packet with it's own IP as
source (but I didn't check for this enough). So, the question is if
you can get similar warnings without such "special", internal pings
too.

> 
> > And, if there is some network address we have a problem: AFAIK this
> > 255.255.255.255 broadcast is special, and it shouldn't be routed to
> > other networks. Your host doesn't seem to recognize this network, so
> > it shouldn't happen on this interface. So it seems, you expect the
> > bridge behavior where it's 2 in 1 (bridge + IP host).
> 
> Yes, this machine is an IP host (SSH access is needed) in a private
> subnet (10.253.2/24) and also bridges traffic belonging to other
> subnets (like for example the above).  It is not a router, though, so
> it knows nothing about the bridged subnets.  Actually, it should be
> totally separated from those, that's why I was alarmed by the martian
> warnings: these "limited broadcast" (255.255.255.255, not routed, as
> you note) addressed packets could reach the bridge!

Wasn't this ping done within the bridge's reach?

> 
> > I'm not sure there is "right" solution for this with any model, but
> > I can miss something - then more details are needed. Otherwise,
> > maybe you should simply consider turning off log_martians on these
> > devices.
> 
> I could, but I'm more than a little worried that I don't understand
> this stuff I'm expected to manage.  That's why I brought up the issue
> here.  rp_filter is already enabled on all interfaces.  Do you think
> it already ensures the separation I'm after, and all that's left is to
> disable log_martians?

rp_filter prevents some kind of suspicious traffic (but legal
sometimes) but not all. log_martians should tell you if it's something
serious. If you have some martians "by design" it's probably better
to get rid of them before rp_filter, and save log_martians only for
really unexpected cases.

> -- 
> Thanks,
> Feri.
> 
> Ps: If so, then I'd suggest placing the martian warning after
> rp_filter, so that it doesn't warn about packets which get dropped
> anyway, if possible.  Also, flipping the addresses in the martian
> warning text would reduce confusion.  As it is, it suggests (English
> is a foreign language for me, mind you) that 255.255.255.255 is the
> problematic "martian source", while it's just a random destination
> address in fact.

I guess we turn on log_martians just to see what is dropped. I agree
the syntax of this warning is confusing, but I doubt we should change
this after so many years - this could break users' scripts checking
for this.

Cheers,
Jarek P.
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