netdev - Re: Netlink API for bonding ?

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Date:	Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:00:24 -0700
From:	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>
To:	Nicolas de Pesloüan <nicolas.2p.debian@...e.fr>
Cc:	Jay Vosburgh <fubar@...ibm.com>,
	bonding-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	Jiri Pirko <jpirko@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: Netlink API for bonding ?

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:10:55 +0200
Nicolas de Pesloüan <nicolas.2p.debian@...e.fr> wrote:

> Stephen Hemminger wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:44:30 +0200
> > Nicolas de Pesloüan <nicolas.2p.debian@...e.fr> wrote:
> > 
> >> Stephen Hemminger wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:34:50 +0200
> >>> Nicolas de Pesloüan <nicolas.2p.debian@...e.fr> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Stephen,
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you please describe the netlink API you plan to implement for bonding ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Both Jiri Pirko and I plan to add some advanced active slave selection rules, 
> >>>> for more-than-two-slaves bonding configuration.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jay suggested that such advanced features be implemented in user space, using 
> >>>> netlink to notify a daemon when slaves come up or fall down. I agree with Jay, 
> >>>> but don't want to design something without having first a view at your proposed 
> >>>> API for bonding.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you plan to have some notification to user space, or only the ability to read 
> >>>> and set bonding configuration using netlink ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> 	Nicolas.
> >>> No paper spec, but was looking to add interface similar to vlan and macvlan.
> >>> Just use (and extend if needed) existing rtnl_link_ops.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Was not planning on adding a notification interface, thats good idea but
> >>> really not what I was looking at.
> >> What kind of notification system would you suggest to notify userland that a 
> >> given bond device just lose the current active slave ?
> > 
> > First why should user land care?  Unless all slaves are gone maybe it
> > should just be transparent.
> 
> Because we try to design a notification from kernel to userland when current 
> active slave fail, to give an opportunity to userland to decide which non-failed 
> slave should become the new active one. This is in order to try and move complex 
> decisions to userland, only keeping very simple "two slaves" decisions into the 
> kernel.
> 
> Think of it as the bonding counter part of moving STP to userland for bridge. 
> Userland should be able to decide which slave should be the active one for the 
> same reasons userland is able to decide which bridge port should be forwarding 
> and which should be blocked.
> 
> I assume that we cannot just try to make the current bridge userland 
> notification system more generic. May be I'm wrong. May be the ability to notify 
> port failure, port coming back and BPDU for bridge is a superset of what we need 
> to notify port failure and port coming back for bonding.
> 
> > Use existing link ops mechanism (see vlan and macvlan). You may need
> > to add new operations, but these should be generic enough so that bonding and bridging
> > have same operations. 
> > 
> >      .newlink => create bond device
> >      .dellink => remove bond device
> >      .newport => add slave
> >      .delport => remove slave
> > 
> > Also, dellink should always work (even if slaves are present).
> 
> This sounds perfect for setup, but might not be good the elect the "best" port 
> (active slave). Also, I assume a new RTNETLINK operation needs to be added for 
> that. I thought that this was what you were working on. Do I miss something ? 
> Does brctl use RTNETLINK for port setup ? Or do you plan to use iproute2 to 
> replace brctl in the futur ?

I got to busy to get past making bonding amenable to using newlink/delink.
One common way to handle changes is to send another NEWXXX message with
different parameters (TLV values).

> > The terminology slave is not widely used outside of bonding, and so probably
> > shouldn't be buried in the API.
> 
> Yes, you are definitely right with this point.
> 
> 	Nicolas.

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