netdev - Re: PATCH: Network Device Naming mechanism and policy

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Date:	Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:25:18 -0700
From:	Greg KH <greg@...ah.com>
To:	Matt Domsch <Matt_Domsch@...l.com>
Cc:	Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@...tta.com>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-hotplug@...r.kernel.org, Narendra_K@...l.com,
	jordan_hargrave@...l.com
Subject: Re: PATCH: Network Device Naming mechanism and policy

On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 07:47:32AM -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 10:23:08PM -0700, Greg KH wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 11:40:57PM -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
> > > The fundamental roadblock to this is that enumeration != naming,
> > > except that it is for network devices, and we keep changing the
> > > enumeration order.
> > 
> > No, the hardware changes the enumeration order, it places _no_
> > guarantees on what order stuff will be found in.  So this is not the
> > kernel changing, just to be clear.
> 
> Over time the kernel has changed its enumeration mechanisms, and
> introduced parallelism into the process (which is a good thing),
> which, from a user perspective, makes names nondeterministic.  Yes,
> fixing this up by hard-coding MAC addresses after install has been
> the traditional mechanism to address this.  I think there's a better
> way.

Ok, but that way can be done in userspace, without the need for this
char device, right?

> > > Today, port naming is completely nondeterministic.  If you have but
> > > one NIC, there are few chances to get the name wrong (it'll be eth0).
> > > If you have >1 NIC, chances increase to get it wrong.
> > 
> > That is why all distros name network devices based on the only
> > deterministic thing they have today, the MAC address.  I still fail to
> > see why you do not like this solution, it is honestly the only way to
> > properly name network devices in a sane manner.
> >
> > All distros also provide a way to easily rename the network devices, to
> > place a specific name on a specific MAC address, so again, this should
> > all be solved already.
> 
> It's not the only way, it introduces state where there's a desire for
> a stateless solution, it's useless for getting all the names right at
> initial OS install time, and it restricts us to a single "name" for a
> given device.
> 
> We can get additional information from BIOS.  SMBIOS 2.6 (types 9 and
> 41) has the fields to let us get a "label" for an device at a given
> b/d/f.  On my PowerEdge R610, I see "Embedded NIC 1" .. "Embedded NIC
> 4" for the 4 LOMs.  These labels have a clear correlation to the
> labels on the back of the chassis at these ports.  biosdevname can
> parse and report this.  HP made a similar vendor-specific extension to
> SMBIOS for their platforms, which biosdevname also parses.  Even if
> BIOS decides they need to renumber the busses on every boot, it can
> keep this table correct.  (insert general mistrust of BIOS authors
> rant; that's not the point here.)
> 
> biosdevname can be used in udev rules to create multiple names for a
> given device.  Rules such as:

Yes, if you want multiple ways to name a network device, then you need
the char nodes.  But without that, you can just pick "always use the
biosdevname" type option from your distro setup screen and go with that.
Then you have everything always working properly from the very
beginning.

> > No matter how badly your BIOS teams mess up the PCI enumeration
> > order :)
> 
> In my case, the BIOS for a given system always configures the ports
> the same way, and assigns b/d/f the same way.  With no change in the
> BIOS or hardware, I still see the ports enumerated differently on each
> boot. :-(

Again, that's legal from a PCI standpoint :)

So you really want this for multiple ways to name the same network
device.  That's a choice the network developers are going to have to
make, as to if that is going to be a legal thing to have happen or not.

But this code is not a requirement to "solve" the fact that network
devices can show up in different order, that problem can be solved as
long as the user picks a single way to name the devices, using tools
that are already present today in distros.

thanks,

greg k-h
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