netdev - Re: poll broken (for can)

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Date:	Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:53:17 +0200
From:	Marc Kleine-Budde <mkl@...gutronix.de>
To:	Oliver Hartkopp <socketcan@...tkopp.net>
CC:	Wolfgang Grandegger <wg@...ndegger.com>,
	socketcan-users@...ts.berlios.de, Netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: poll broken (for can)

On 03/29/2011 10:03 PM, Oliver Hartkopp wrote:
> On 28.03.2011 21:32, Marc Kleine-Budde wrote:
>> On 03/28/2011 07:53 PM, Oliver Hartkopp wrote:
>>> On 28.03.2011 18:13, Marc Kleine-Budde wrote:
>>>> On 03/28/2011 05:55 PM, Wolfgang Grandegger wrote:
>>>>>> BTW: I figured out why poll() wakes you up but the next write will fail
>>>>>> with -ENOBUFS again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, I'm curious? I also did realize that poll does burn CPU cycles
>>>>> (instead of waiting).
>>>>
>>>> The poll callback checks if the used memory is less than the half of per
>>>> socket snd buffer (IIRC ~60K). See:
>>>>
>>>> datagram_poll (http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.38/net/core/datagram.c#L737)
>>>> sock_writeable (http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.38/include/net/sock.h#L1618)
>>>>
>>>> Because the size of a can frame (+the skb overhead) is much less then
>>>> the ethernet frame (+overhead) the default value for the snd buffer is
>>>> too big for can.
>>>>
>>>> We get the -ENOBUF from write() if the tx_queue_len (default 10) is
>>>> exceeded.
>>>>
>>>> http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.38/drivers/net/can/dev.c#L435
>>>> http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.38/net/can/af_can.c#L268
>>>>
>>>
>>> What would be your suggestion? Decreasing the socket send buffer for CAN by
>>> default?
>>
>> I haven't done any testing.....As far as I understand the code, we can
>> a) increase the default tx_queue_len and/or
>> b) decrease the default snd buffer size.
>>
>> Note: a) is a per device setting whereas b) is a per socket setting.
>>
>> With the current settings the -ENOBUF is triggered if we have X unsend
>> can frames (per device) where X equals the tx_queue_len. This means
>> using 5 applications, it about 2 queued (i.e. unsent) frames per app and
>> device.
>>
>> If we increase the tx_queue_len to a high value (via ifconfig), so that
>> the snd buffer is fully used, before the tx_queue_len is exceeded the
>> write system call will block, (or return -EAGAIN of opened non
>> blocking). At least the last time I've done this.
>>
>> I think solution b) would lead to a similar behavioural change.
>>
>> What do we really want to specify?
> 
> Hm - the problem could be that people expect their frames to be sent 'in
> time', so if we increase the tx_queue_len, it's not transparent when the
> frames are potentially leaving the system - and if the application data is
> already out-dated when hitting the medium.
> 
> What about having up to three CAN frames in each CAN_RAW socket send buffer
> and e.g.50 frames in the tx_queue_len of the netdevice as a starting point?

With current the tx_queue_len of 10 it's 10 frames for a single
application scenario. But I don't have any real world CAN experience.

>> Something like: queue up to X frames per socket and queue only Y frames
>> per device. Where Y = X * n and n is "I don't know yet"?
>>
>> Y is simple, it's the tx_queue_len. But X is more complicated. The can
>> frames have non constant length (i.e. dlc) and I'm not sure that the
>> netdev people say if we misuse the sock_alloc_send_pskb() for our
>> tx-flow-control :)

> I would propose to count the CAN frames independently from the can_dlc. AFAIK

Sure - That's what we want. The code has to be written, though :)

> the tx_queue_len is dealing with skb's - and the skb->len for the socket send
> buffer is also size of struct can_frame, right?

I don't know the code in depth, but I think the skb holding the outgoing
can frame is allocated (or at least accounted) from the snd buffer.
Maybe even more data structures.

Marc

-- 
Pengutronix e.K.                  | Marc Kleine-Budde           |
Industrial Linux Solutions        | Phone: +49-231-2826-924     |
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