netdev - Re: updated: kvm networking todo wiki

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Date:	Fri, 24 May 2013 17:00:24 +0300
From:	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:	Anthony Liguori <anthony@...emonkey.ws>
Cc:	Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>,
	David Stevens <dlstevens@...ibm.com>, sri@...ux.vnet.ibm.com,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@...tcorp.com.au>,
	Krishna Kumar2 <krkumar2@...ibm.com>,
	Shirley Ma <mashirle@...ibm.com>,
	"Xin, Xiaohui" <xiaohui.xin@...el.com>, jdike@...ux.intel.com,
	herbert@...dor.hengli.com.au, lmr@...hat.com, akong@...hat.com,
	vyasevic@...hat.com, sriram.narasimhan@...com, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
	qemu-devel@...gnu.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: updated: kvm networking todo wiki

On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 08:47:58AM -0500, Anthony Liguori wrote:
> "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com> writes:
> 
> > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 05:41:11PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> >> On 05/23/2013 04:50 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> >> > Hey guys,
> >> > I've updated the kvm networking todo wiki with current projects.
> >> > Will try to keep it up to date more often.
> >> > Original announcement below.
> >> 
> >> Thanks a lot. I've added the tasks I'm currently working on to the wiki.
> >> 
> >> btw. I notice the virtio-net data plane were missed in the wiki. Is the
> >> project still being considered?
> >
> > It might have been interesting several years ago, but now that linux has
> > vhost-net in kernel, the only point seems to be to
> > speed up networking on non-linux hosts.
> 
> Data plane just means having a dedicated thread for virtqueue processing
> that doesn't hold qemu_mutex.
> 
> Of course we're going to do this in QEMU.  It's a no brainer.  But not
> as a separate device, just as an improvement to the existing userspace
> virtio-net.
> 
> > Since non-linux does not have kvm, I doubt virtio is a bottleneck.
> 
> FWIW, I think what's more interesting is using vhost-net as a networking
> backend with virtio-net in QEMU being what's guest facing.
> 
> In theory, this gives you the best of both worlds: QEMU acts as a first
> line of defense against a malicious guest while still getting the
> performance advantages of vhost-net (zero-copy).

Great idea, that sounds very intresting.

I'll add it to the wiki.

In fact a bit of complexity in vhost was put there in the vague hope to
support something like this: virtio rings are not translated through
regular memory tables, instead, vhost gets a pointer to ring address.

This allows qemu acting as a man in the middle,
verifying the descriptors but not touching the

Anyone interested in working on such a project?

> > IMO yet another networking backend is a distraction,
> > and confusing to users.
> > In any case, I'd like to see virtio-blk dataplane replace
> > non dataplane first. We don't want two copies of
> > virtio-net in qemu.
> 
> 100% agreed.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Anthony Liguori
> 
> >
> >> > ----
> >> >
> >> > I've put up a wiki page with a kvm networking todo list,
> >> > mainly to avoid effort duplication, but also in the hope
> >> > to draw attention to what I think we should try addressing
> >> > in KVM:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/NetworkingTodo
> >> >
> >> > This page could cover all networking related activity in KVM,
> >> > currently most info is related to virtio-net.
> >> >
> >> > Note: if there's no developer listed for an item,
> >> > this just means I don't know of anyone actively working
> >> > on an issue at the moment, not that no one intends to.
> >> >
> >> > I would appreciate it if others working on one of the items on this list
> >> > would add their names so we can communicate better.  If others like this
> >> > wiki page, please go ahead and add stuff you are working on if any.
> >> >
> >> > It would be especially nice to add autotest projects:
> >> > there is just a short test matrix and a catch-all
> >> > 'Cover test matrix with autotest', currently.
> >> >
> >> > Currently there are some links to Red Hat bugzilla entries,
> >> > feel free to add links to other bugzillas.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
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