Date:	Thu, 16 Jan 2014 21:08:20 -0800
From:	Tom Herbert <therbert@...gle.com>
To:	Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
Cc:	Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@...hat.com>,
	Zhi Yong Wu <zwu.kernel@...il.com>,
	Linux Netdev List <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Zhi Yong Wu <wuzhy@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@...tcorp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [RFC PATCH net-next 0/3] virtio_net: add aRFS support

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com> wrote:
> On 01/17/2014 01:12 AM, Tom Herbert wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@...hat.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 04:34:10PM +0800, Zhi Yong Wu wrote:
>>>> CC: stefanha, MST, Rusty Russel
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
>>>> Date: Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:23 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 0/3] virtio_net: add aRFS support
>>>> To: Zhi Yong Wu <zwu.kernel@...il.com>
>>>> Cc: netdev@...r.kernel.org, therbert@...gle.com, edumazet@...gle.com,
>>>> davem@...emloft.net, Zhi Yong Wu <wuzhy@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/15/2014 10:20 PM, Zhi Yong Wu wrote:
>>>>> From: Zhi Yong Wu<wuzhy@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> HI, folks
>>>>>
>>>>> The patchset is trying to integrate aRFS support to virtio_net. In this case,
>>>>> aRFS will be used to select the RX queue. To make sure that it's going ahead
>>>>> in the correct direction, although it is still one RFC and isn't tested, it's
>>>>> post out ASAP. Any comment are appreciated, thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone is interested in playing with it, you can get this patchset from my
>>>>> dev git on github:
>>>>>    git://github.com/wuzhy/kernel.git virtnet_rfs
>>>>>
>>>>> Zhi Yong Wu (3):
>>>>>    virtio_pci: Introduce one new config api vp_get_vq_irq()
>>>>>    virtio_net: Introduce one dummy function virtnet_filter_rfs()
>>>>>    virtio-net: Add accelerated RFS support
>>>>>
>>>>>   drivers/net/virtio_net.c      |   67 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-
>>>>>   drivers/virtio/virtio_pci.c   |   11 +++++++
>>>>>   include/linux/virtio_config.h |   12 +++++++
>>>>>   3 files changed, 89 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
>>>>>
>>>> Please run get_maintainter.pl before sending the patch. You'd better
>>>> at least cc virtio maintainer/list for this.
>>>>
>>>> The core aRFS method is a noop in this RFC which make this series no
>>>> much sense to discuss. You should at least mention the big picture
>>>> here in the cover letter. I suggest you should post a RFC which can
>>>> run and has expected result or you can just raise a thread for the
>>>> design discussion.
>>>>
>>>> And this method has been discussed before, you can search "[net-next
>>>> RFC PATCH 5/5] virtio-net: flow director support" in netdev archive
>>>> for a very old prototype implemented by me. It can work and looks like
>>>> most of this RFC have already done there.
>>>>
>>>> A basic question is whether or not we need this, not all the mq cards
>>>> use aRFS (see ixgbe ATR). And whether or not it can bring extra
>>>> overheads? For virtio, we want to reduce the vmexits as much as
>>>> possible but this aRFS seems introduce a lot of more of this. Making a
>>>> complex interfaces just for an virtual device may not be good, simple
>>>> method may works for most of the cases.
>>>>
>>>> We really should consider to offload this to real nic. VMDq and L2
>>>> forwarding offload may help in this case.
>> Adding flow director support would be a good step, Zhi's patches for
>> support in tun have been merged, so support in virtio-net would be a
>> good follow on. But, flow-director does have some limitations and
>> performance issues of it's own (forced pairing between TX and RX
>> queues, lookup on every TX packet).
>
> True. But the pairing was designed to work without guest involving since
> we really want to reduce the vmexits from guest. And lookup on every TX
> packets could be released to every N packets. But I agree exposing the
> API to guest may bring lots of flexibility.
>> In the case of virtualization,
>> aRFS, RSS, ntuple filtering, LRO, etc. can be implemented as software
>> emulations and so far seems to be wins in most cases. Extending these
>> down into the stack so that they can leverage HW mechanisms is a good
>> goal for best performance. It's probably generally true that most of
>> the offloads commonly available for NICs we'll want in virtualization
>> path. Of course, we need to deomonstrate that they provide real
>> performance benefit in this use case.
>
> Yes, we need a prototype to see how much it can help.
>>
>> I believe tying in aRFS (or flow director) into a real aRFS is just a
>> matter of programming the RFS table properly. This is not the complex
>> side of the interface, I believe this already works with the tun
>> patches.
>
> Right, what we may needs is
>
> - exposing new tun ioctls for qemu adding or removing a flow
> - new virtqueue command for guest driver to adding or removing a flow
> (btw, current control virtqueue is really slow, we may need to improve it).
> - an agreement of host and guest to use the same hash method, or just
> compute software hash in host and pass it to guest (which needs extra
> API to do)

The model to get RX hash from a device is well known, the guest can
use that to reflect information about a flow back to the host, and for
performance we might piggyback RX queue selection on the TX
descriptors of a flow. Probably some limitations with real HW, but I
assume would have less issues in SW.

IMO, if we have a flow state on the host we should *never* need to
perform any hash computation on TX (a host is not a switch :-) ), we
may want to have some mirrored flow state in the kernel for these
flows which are indexed by the hash provided in TX.

> - change guest driver to use aRFS
>
> Some of the above has been implemented in my old RFC.

Looks pretty similar to Zhi's tun work. Are you planning to refresh
those patches?

>>
>>> Zhi Yong and I had an IRC chat.  I wanted to post my questions on the
>>> list - it's still the same concern I had in the old email thread that
>>> Jason mentioned.
>>>
>>> In order for virtio-net aRFS to make sense there needs to be an overall
>>> plan for pushing flow mapping information down to the physical NIC.
>>> That's the only way to actually achieve the benefit of steering:
>>> processing the packet on the CPU where the application is running.
>>>
>> I don't think this is necessarily true. Per flow steering amongst
>> virtual queues should be beneficial in itself. virtio-net can leverage
>> RFS or aRFS where it's available.
>>
>>> If it's not possible or too hard to implement aRFS down the entire
>>> stack, we won't be able to process the packet on the right CPU.
>>> Then we might as well not bother with aRFS and just distribute uniformly
>>> across the rx virtqueues.
>>>
>>> Please post an outline of how rx packets will be steered up the stack so
>>> we can discuss whether aRFS can bring any benefit.
>>>
>> 1. The aRFS interface for the guest to specify which virtual queue to
>> receive a packet on is fairly straight forward.
>> 2. To hook into RFS, we need to match the virtual queue to the real
>> CPU it will processed on, and then program the RFS table for that flow
>> and CPU.
>> 3. NIC aRFS keys off the RFS tables so it can program the HW with the
>> correct queue for the CPU.
>>
>>> Stefan
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