Date:	Fri, 19 Dec 2014 16:57:22 -0800
From:	"Williams, Kenneth" <kenneth.j.williams@...el.com>
To:	Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...ulusnetworks.com>
Cc:	Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>, B Viswanath <marichika4@...il.com>,
	"Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@...el.com>,
	John Fastabend <john.r.fastabend@...el.com>,
	"Varlese, Marco" <marco.varlese@...el.com>,
	"netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Graf <tgraf@...g.ch>,
	"sfeldma@...il.com" <sfeldma@...il.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next v2 1/1] net: Support for switch port
 configuration

On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 08:22:40AM -0800, Roopa Prabhu wrote:
> On 12/19/14, 1:55 AM, Jiri Pirko wrote:
> >Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 10:35:27AM CET, marichika4@...il.com wrote:
> >>On 19 December 2014 at 14:53, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us> wrote:
> >>>Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 10:01:46AM CET, marichika4@...il.com wrote:
> >>>>On 19 December 2014 at 13:57, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us> wrote:
> >>>>>Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 06:14:57AM CET, marichika4@...il.com wrote:
> >>>>>>On 19 December 2014 at 05:18, Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...ulusnetworks.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>On 12/18/14, 3:26 PM, Samudrala, Sridhar wrote:
> >>>><snipped for ease of reading>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>We also need an interface to set per-switch attributes. Can this work?
> >>>>>>>>     bridge link set dev sw0 sw_attr bcast_flooding 1 master
> >>>>>>>>where sw0 is a bridge representing the hardware switch.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Not today. We discussed this @ LPC, and one way to do this would be to have
> >>>>>>>a device
> >>>>>>>representing the switch asic. This is in the works.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Can I assume that on  platforms which house more than one asic (say
> >>>>>>two 24 port asics, interconnected via a 10G link or equivalent, to get
> >>>>>>a 48 port 'switch') , the 'rocker' driver (or similar) should expose
> >>>>>>them as a single set of ports, and not as two 'switch ports' ?
> >>>>>Well that really depends on particular implementation and drivers. If you
> >>>>>have 2 pci-e devices, I think you should expose them as 2 entities. For
> >>>>>sure, you can have the driver to do the masking for you. I don't believe
> >>>>>that is correct though.
> >>>>>
> >>>>In a platform that houses two asic chips, IMO, the user is still
> >>>>expected to manage the router as a single entity. The configuration
> >>>>being applied on both asic devices need to be matching if not
> >>>>identical, and may not be conflicting. The FDB is to be synchronized
> >>>>so that (offloaded) switching can happen across the asics. Some of
> >>>>this stuff is asic specific anyway. Another example is that of the
> >>>>learning. The (hardware) learning can't be enabled on one asic, while
> >>>>being disabled on another one. The general use cases I have seen are
> >>>>all involving managing the 'router' as a single entity.  That the
> >>>>'router' is implemented with two asics instead of a single asic (with
> >>>>more ports) is to be treated as an implementation detail.  This is the
> >>>>usual router management method that exists today.
> >>>>
> >>>>I hope I make sense.
> >>>>
> >>>>So I am trying to figure out what this single entity that will be used
> >>>>from a user perspective. It can be a bridge, but our bridges are more
> >>>>802.1q bridges. We can use the 'self' mode, but then it means that it
> >>>>should reflect the entire port count, and not just an asic.
> >>>>
> >>>>So I was trying to deduce that in our switchdevice model, the best bet
> >>>>would be to leave the unification to the driver (i.e., to project the
> >>>>multiple physical asics as a single virtual switch device). Thist
> >>>Is it possible to have the asic as just single one? Or is it possible to
> >>>connect asics being multiple chips maybe from multiple vendors together?
> >>I didn't understand the first question. Some times, it is possible to
> >I ment that there is a design with just a single asic of this type,
> >instead of a pair.
> >
> >>have a single asic replace two, but its a cost factor, and others that
> >>are involved.
> >>
> >>AFAIK, the answer to the second question is a No. Two asics from
> >>different vendors may not be connected together. The interconnect
> >>tends to be proprietary.
> >Okay. In that case, it might make sense to mask it on driver level.
> >
> >
> >>>I believe that answer is "yes" in both cases. Making two separate asics
> >>>to appear as one for user is not correct in my opinion. Driver should
> >>>not do such masking. It is unclean, unextendable.
> >>>
> >>I am only looking for a single management entity. I am not thinking it
> >>needs to be at driver level. I am not sure of  any other option apart
> >>from creating a 'switchdev' that Roopa was mentioning.
> >
> >Well the thing is there is a common desire to make the offloading as
> >transparent as possible. For example, have 4 ports of same switch and
> >put them into br0. Just like that, without need to do anything else
> >than you would do when bridging ordinary NICs. Introducing some
> >"management entity" would break this approach.
> >
> I don't think having a switchdevice breaks this approach. A software bridge
> is not a 1-1 mapping with the asic in all cases.
> When its a vlan filtering bridge, yes, it is (In which case all switch
> global l2 non-port specific attributes can be applied to the bridge).
> 
> The switch asic can do l2 and l3 too. For a bridge, the switch asic is just
> accelerating l2.
> And a switch asic is also capable of l3, acls. A switch device (whether
> accessible to userspace or not)
> may become necessary (as discussed in other threads) where you cannot
> resolve a kernel object to a switch port (Global acl rules, unresolved route
> nexthops etc).
A switch-chip vendor that provides a proprietary mechanism of
bonding two or more switch-chips into a single functional unit, also
typically provides an API that allows operating on this bonded set of
switch chips to be addressed as a single unit. If my understanding is
correct, the question of port uniqueness, etc becomes moot.
> 
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