Date:	Mon, 4 Apr 2016 09:17:22 -0700
From:	Brenden Blanco <bblanco@...mgrid.com>
To:	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>
Cc:	Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@...hat.com>,
	Tom Herbert <tom@...bertland.com>,
	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Linux Kernel Network Developers <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>,
	ogerlitz@...lanox.com
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/5] bpf: add PHYS_DEV prog type for early driver
 filter

On Mon, Apr 04, 2016 at 09:07:03AM -0700, John Fastabend wrote:
> On 16-04-04 08:29 AM, Brenden Blanco wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 04, 2016 at 05:12:27PM +0200, Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote:
> >> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 11:09:57 -0300
> >> Tom Herbert <tom@...bertland.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net> wrote:
> >>>> On 04/04/2016 03:07 PM, Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote:  
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 10:49:09 +0200 Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>
> >>>>> wrote:  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 04/02/2016 03:21 AM, Brenden Blanco wrote:  
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Add a new bpf prog type that is intended to run in early stages of the
> >>>>>>> packet rx path. Only minimal packet metadata will be available, hence a
> >>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>> context type, struct xdp_metadata, is exposed to userspace. So far only
> >>>>>>> expose the readable packet length, and only in read mode.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The PHYS_DEV name is chosen to represent that the program is meant only
> >>>>>>> for physical adapters, rather than all netdevs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> While the user visible struct is new, the underlying context must be
> >>>>>>> implemented as a minimal skb in order for the packet load_* instructions
> >>>>>>> to work. The skb filled in by the driver must have skb->len, skb->head,
> >>>>>>> and skb->data set, and skb->data_len == 0.
> >>>>>>>  
> >>>>> [...]  
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Do you plan to support bpf_skb_load_bytes() as well? I like using
> >>>>>> this API especially when dealing with larger chunks (>4 bytes) to
> >>>>>> load into stack memory, plus content is kept in network byte order.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What about other helpers such as bpf_skb_store_bytes() et al that
> >>>>>> work on skbs. Do you intent to reuse them as is and thus populate
> >>>>>> the per cpu skb with needed fields (faking linear data), or do you
> >>>>>> see larger obstacles that prevent for this?  
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Argh... maybe the minimal pseudo/fake SKB is the wrong "signal" to send
> >>>>> to users of this API.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The hole idea is that an SKB is NOT allocated yet, and not needed at
> >>>>> this level.  If we start supporting calling underlying SKB functions,
> >>>>> then we will end-up in the same place (performance wise).  
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm talking about the current skb-related BPF helper functions we have,
> >>>> so the question is how much from that code we have we can reuse under
> >>>> these constraints (obviously things like the tunnel helpers are a different
> >>>> story) and if that trade-off is acceptable for us. I'm also thinking
> >>>> that, for example, if you need to parse the packet data anyway for a drop
> >>>> verdict, you might as well pass some meta data (that is set in the real
> >>>> skb later on) for those packets that go up the stack.  
> >>>
> >>> Right, the meta data in this case is an abstracted receive descriptor.
> >>> This would include items that we get in a device receive descriptor
> >>> (computed checksum, hash, VLAN tag). This is purposely a small
> >>> restricted data structure. I'm hoping we can minimize the size of this
> >>> to not much more than 32 bytes (including pointers to data and
> >>> linkage).
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>  
> >>> How this translates to skb to maintain compatibility is with BPF
> >>> interesting question. One other consideration is that skb's are kernel
> >>> specific, we should be able to use the same BPF filter program in
> >>> userspace over DPDK for instance-- so an skb interface as the packet
> >>> abstraction might not be the right model...
> >>
> >> I agree.  I don't think reusing the SKB data structure is the right
> >> model.  We should drop the SKB pointer from the API.
> >>
> >> As Tom also points out, making the BPF interface independent of the SKB
> >> meta-data structure, would also make the eBPF program more generally
> >> applicable.
> > The initial approach that I tried went down this path. Alexei advised
> > that I use the pseudo skb, and in the future the API between drivers and
> > bpf can change to adopt non-skb context. The only user facing ABIs in
> > this patchset are the IFLA, the xdp_metadata struct, and the name of the
> > new enum.
> > 
> > The reason to use a pseudo skb for now is that there will be a fair
> > amount of churn to get bpf jit and interpreter to understand non-skb
> > context in the bpf_load_pointer() code. I don't see the need for
> > requiring that for this patchset, as it will be internal-only change
> > if/when we use something else.
> 
> Another option would be to have per driver JIT code to patch up the
> skb read/loads with descriptor reads and metadata. From a strictly
> performance stand point it should be better than pseudo skbs.

I considered (and implemented) this as well, but there my problem was
that I needed to inform the bpf() syscall at BPF_PROG_LOAD time which
ifindex to look at for fixups, so I had to add a new ifindex field to
bpf_attr. Then during verification I had to use a new ndo to get the
driver-specific offsets for its particular descriptor format. It seemed
kludgy.
> 
> .John

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