netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next v2] ipv4: fib: Replay events when registering FIB notifier

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Date:   Wed, 02 Nov 2016 07:35:03 -0700
From:   Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...ulusnetworks.com>
To:     Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>
CC:     Ido Schimmel <idosch@...sch.org>,
        Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "davem@...emloft.net" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...lanox.com>, mlxsw <mlxsw@...lanox.com>,
        David Ahern <dsa@...ulusnetworks.com>,
        Nikolay Aleksandrov <nikolay@...ulusnetworks.com>,
        Andy Gospodarek <andy@...yhouse.net>,
        Vivien Didelot <vivien.didelot@...oirfairelinux.com>,
        Andrew Lunn <andrew@...n.ch>,
        Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>,
        alexander.h.duyck@...el.com,
        Alexey Kuznetsov <kuznet@....inr.ac.ru>,
        James Morris <jmorris@...ei.org>,
        Hideaki YOSHIFUJI <yoshfuji@...ux-ipv6.org>,
        Patrick McHardy <kaber@...sh.net>,
        Ido Schimmel <idosch@...lanox.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v2] ipv4: fib: Replay events when registering
 FIB notifier

On 11/2/16, 6:48 AM, Jiri Pirko wrote:
> Wed, Nov 02, 2016 at 02:29:40PM CET, roopa@...ulusnetworks.com wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:20 AM, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us> wrote:
>>> Wed, Nov 02, 2016 at 03:13:42AM CET, roopa@...ulusnetworks.com wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> I understand..but, if you are adding some core infrastructure for switchdev ..it cannot be
>>>> based on the number of simple use-cases or data you have today.
>>>>
>>>> I won't be surprised if tomorrow other switch drivers have a case where they need to
>>>> reset the hw routing table state and reprogram all routes again. Re-registering the notifier to just
>>>> get the routing state of the kernel will not scale. For the long term, since the driver does not maintain a cache,
>>> Driver (mlxsw, rocker) maintain a cache. So I'm not sure why you say
>>> otherwise.
>>>
>>>
>>>> a pull api with efficient use of rtnl will be useful for other such cases as well.
>>> How do you imagine this "pull API" should look like?
>>
>> Just like you already have added fib notifiers to parallel fib netlink
>> notifications, the pull API is  a parallel to 'netlink dump'.
>> Is my imagination too wild  ? :)
> Perhaps I'm slow, but I don't understand what you mean.
 
>>>>
>>>> If you don't want to get to the complexity of a new api right away because of the
>>>> simple case of management interface routes you have, Can your driver register the notifier early  ?
>>>> (I am sure you have probably already thought about this)
>>> Register early? What it would resolve? I must be missing something. We
>>> register as early as possible. But the thing is, we cannot register
>>> in a past. And that is what this patch resolves.
>> sure, you must be having a valid problem then. I was just curious why
>> your driver is not up and initialized before any of the addresses or
>> routes get configured in the system (even on a management port). Ours
> If you unload the module and load it again for example. This is a valid
> usecase.

I see, so you are optimizing for this use case. sure it is a valid use-case but a narrow one
compared to the rtnl overhead the api may bring
 (note that i am not saying you should not solve it).

>
>
>> does. But i agree there can be races and you cannot always guarantee
>> (I was just responding to ido's comment about adding complexity for a
>> small problem he has to solve for management routes). Our driver does
>> a pull before it starts. This helps when we want to reset the hardware
>> routing table state too.
> Can you point me to you driver in the tree? I would like to see how you
> do "the pull".
:), you know all this... but, if i must explicitly say it, yes,  we don't have a driver in the tree and
we don't own the hardware. My analogy here is of a netlink dump that we use heavily for the
same scale that you will probably deploy.
i do give you full credit for the hardware and the driver and switchdev support and all that!.

>
>>
>> But, my point was, when you are defining an API, you cannot quantify
>> the 'past' to be just the very 'close past' or 'the past is just the
>> management routes that were added' . Tomorrow the 'past' can be the
>> full routing table if you need to reset the hardware state.
> Sure.

This pull api was a suggestion for an efficient use of rtnl ...similar to how the netlink
routing dump handles it. If you cannot imagine an api like that..., sure, your call.