Date:   Tue, 31 Jan 2017 21:09:24 -0800
From:   John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>
To:     Willem de Bruijn <willemdebruijn.kernel@...il.com>
Cc:     Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@...hat.com>, bjorn.topel@...il.com,
        jasowang@...hat.com, ast@...com, alexander.duyck@...il.com,
        john.r.fastabend@...el.com,
        Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 1/2] af_packet: direct dma for packet ineterface

On 17-01-30 05:31 PM, Willem de Bruijn wrote:
>>>> V3 header formats added bulk polling via socket calls and timers
>>>> used in the polling interface to return every n milliseconds. Currently,
>>>> I don't see any way to support this in hardware because we can't
>>>> know if the hardware is in the middle of a DMA operation or not
>>>> on a slot. So when a timer fires I don't know how to advance the
>>>> descriptor ring leaving empty descriptors similar to how the software
>>>> ring works. The easiest (best?) route is to simply not support this.
>>>
>>> From a performance pov bulking is essential. Systems like netmap that
>>> also depend on transferring control between kernel and userspace,
>>> report[1] that they need at least bulking size 8, to amortize the overhead.
> 
> To introduce interrupt moderation, ixgbe_do_ddma only has to elide the
> sk_data_ready, and schedule an hrtimer if one is not scheduled yet.
> 
> If I understand correctly, the difficulty lies in v3 requiring that the
> timer "close" the block when the timer expires. That may not be worth
> implementing, indeed.
> 

Yep that is where I just gave up and decided it wasn't worth it.

> Hardware interrupt moderation and napi may already give some
> moderation, even with a sock_def_readable call for each packet. If
> considering a v4 format, I'll again suggest virtio virtqueues. Those
> have interrupt suppression built in with EVENT_IDX.


Agreed. On paper now I'm considering moving to something like this after
getting some feedback here. Of course I'll need to play with the code a
bit to see what it looks like. I'll need a couple weeks probably to get
this sorted out.

> 
>>> Likely, but I would like that we do a measurement based approach.  Lets
>>> benchmark with this V2 header format, and see how far we are from
>>> target, and see what lights-up in perf report and if it is something we
>>> can address.
>>
>> Yep I'm hoping to get to this sometime this week.
> 
> Perhaps also without filling in the optional metadata data fields
> in tpacket and sockaddr_ll.
> 
>>> E.g. how will you support XDP_TX?  AFAIK you cannot remove/detach a
>>> packet with this solution (and place it on a TX queue and wait for DMA
>>> TX completion).
>>>
>>
>> This is something worth exploring. tpacket_v2 uses a fixed ring with
>> slots so all the pages are allocated and assigned to the ring at init
>> time. To xmit a packet in this case the user space application would
>> be required to leave the packet descriptor on the rx side pinned
>> until the tx side DMA has completed. Then it can unpin the rx side
>> and return it to the driver. This works if the TX/RX processing is
>> fast enough to keep up. For many things this is good enough.
>>
>> For some work loads though this may not be sufficient. In which
>> case a tpacket_v4 would be useful that can push down a new set
>> of "slots" every n packets. Where n is sufficiently large to keep
>> the workload running.
> 
> Here, too, virtio rings may help.
> 
> The extra level of indirection allows out of order completions,
> reducing the chance of running out of rx descriptors when redirecting
> a subset of packets to a tx ring, as that does not block the entire ring.
> 
> And passing explicit descriptors from userspace enables pointing to
> new memory regions. On the flipside, they now have to be checked for
> safety against region bounds.
> 
>> This is similar in many ways to virtio/vhost interaction.
> 
> Ah, I only saw this after writing the above :)
> 

yep but glad to get some validation on this idea.

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