Date:   Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:58:48 +0100
From:   Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>
To:     Alexander Duyck <alexander.duyck@...il.com>
Cc:     Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@...pl>,
        "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@...el.com>,
        "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>,
        Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>,
        David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        virtio-dev@...ts.oasis-open.org,
        "Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@...el.com>,
        "Duyck, Alexander H" <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>,
        Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>,
        Siwei Liu <loseweigh@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/3] Enable virtio_net to act as a backup for a
 passthru device

Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 05:49:49PM CET, alexander.duyck@...il.com wrote:
>On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 8:11 AM, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us> wrote:
>> Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 04:56:48PM CET, alexander.duyck@...il.com wrote:
>>>On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 1:51 AM, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us> wrote:
>>>> Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:33:56PM CET, kubakici@...pl wrote:
>>>>>On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:14:10 +0100, Jiri Pirko wrote:
>>>>>> Yeah, I can see it now :( I guess that the ship has sailed and we are
>>>>>> stuck with this ugly thing forever...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could you at least make some common code that is shared in between
>>>>>> netvsc and virtio_net so this is handled in exacly the same way in both?
>>>>>
>>>>>IMHO netvsc is a vendor specific driver which made a mistake on what
>>>>>behaviour it provides (or tried to align itself with Windows SR-IOV).
>>>>>Let's not make a far, far more commonly deployed and important driver
>>>>>(virtio) bug-compatible with netvsc.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah. netvsc solution is a dangerous precedent here and in my opinition
>>>> it was a huge mistake to merge it. I personally would vote to unmerge it
>>>> and make the solution based on team/bond.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>To Jiri's initial comments, I feel the same way, in fact I've talked to
>>>>>the NetworkManager guys to get auto-bonding based on MACs handled in
>>>>>user space.  I think it may very well get done in next versions of NM,
>>>>>but isn't done yet.  Stephen also raised the point that not everybody is
>>>>>using NM.
>>>>
>>>> Can be done in NM, networkd or other network management tools.
>>>> Even easier to do this in teamd and let them all benefit.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I took a stab to implement this in teamd. Took me like an hour
>>>> and half.
>>>>
>>>> You can just run teamd with config option "kidnap" like this:
>>>> # teamd/teamd -c '{"kidnap": true }'
>>>>
>>>> Whenever teamd sees another netdev to appear with the same mac as his,
>>>> or whenever teamd sees another netdev to change mac to his,
>>>> it enslaves it.
>>>>
>>>> Here's the patch (quick and dirty):
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [patch teamd] teamd: introduce kidnap feature
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Jiri Pirko <jiri@...lanox.com>
>>>
>>>So this doesn't really address the original problem we were trying to
>>>solve. You asked earlier why the netdev name mattered and it mostly
>>>has to do with configuration. Specifically what our patch is
>>>attempting to resolve is the issue of how to allow a cloud provider to
>>>upgrade their customer to SR-IOV support and live migration without
>>>requiring them to reconfigure their guest. So the general idea with
>>>our patch is to take a VM that is running with virtio_net only and
>>>allow it to instead spawn a virtio_bypass master using the same netdev
>>>name as the original virtio, and then have the virtio_net and VF come
>>>up and be enslaved by the bypass interface. Doing it this way we can
>>>allow for multi-vendor SR-IOV live migration support using a guest
>>>that was originally configured for virtio only.
>>>
>>>The problem with your solution is we already have teaming and bonding
>>>as you said. There is already a write-up from Red Hat on how to do it
>>>(https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_virtualization/4.1/html/virtual_machine_management_guide/sect-migrating_virtual_machines_between_hosts).
>>>That is all well and good as long as you are willing to keep around
>>>two VM images, one for virtio, and one for SR-IOV with live migration.
>>
>> You don't need 2 images. You need only one. The one with the team setup.
>> That's it. If another netdev with the same mac appears, teamd will
>> enslave it and run traffic on it. If not, ok, you'll go only through
>> virtio_net.
>
>Isn't that going to cause the routing table to get messed up when we
>rearrange the netdevs? We don't want to have an significant disruption
> in traffic when we are adding/removing the VF. It seems like we would
>need to invalidate any entries that were configured for the virtio_net
>and reestablish them on the new team interface. Part of the criteria
>we have been working with is that we should be able to transition from
>having a VF to not or vice versa without seeing any significant
>disruption in the traffic.

What? You have routes on the team netdev. virtio_net and VF are only
slaves. What are you talking about? I don't get it :/


>
>Also how does this handle any static configuration? I am assuming that
>everything here assumes the team will be brought up as soon as it is
>seen and assigned a DHCP address.

Again. You configure whatever you need on the team netdev.


>
>The solution as you have proposed seems problematic at best. I don't
>see how the team solution works without introducing some sort of
>traffic disruption to either add/remove the VF and bring up/tear down
>the team interface. At that point we might as well just give up on
>this piece of live migration support entirely since the disruption was
>what we were trying to avoid. We might as well just hotplug out the VF
>and hotplug in a virtio at the same bus device and function number and
>just let udev take care of renaming it for us. The idea was supposed
>to be a seamless transition between the two interfaces.

Alex. What you are trying to do in this patchset and what netvsc does it
essentialy in-driver bonding. Same thing mechanism, rx_handler,
everything. I don't really understand what are you talking about. With
use of team you will get exactly the same behaviour.

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