phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] How important is salting really?

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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 03:12:48 -0800
From: epixoip <epixoip@...dshell.nl>
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] How important is salting really?

On 12/12/2014 2:48 AM, Stefan.Lucks@...-weimar.de wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2014, Ben Harris wrote:
>
>> On 12 December 2014 at 17:53, epixoip <epixoip@...dshell.nl> wrote:
>>       Thus the salt table shrinks with each successful
>>       crack, and the effective speed of the attack increases with each
>>       eliminated salt.
>>
>>
>> A rather confusing way to describe things. If we are attacking all
>> password
>> hashes, one password at a time (from the most common down). Then each
>> time we
>> find a match, the pool of hashes decreases and subsequent passwords
>> can be
>> search faster.
>
> Ah, now I see what epixoip means. I don't think, this comes even close
> to a justification for *not* using salts.

I didn't say it was a justification not to use salts. I said the
opposite. I said salts were necessary, but insufficient on their own. In
other words, an algorithm must not rely on solely upon salting. In other
other words, something like sha256(s.p) is insufficient.