bugtraq - Re: [Full-Disclosure] RE: [PAPER] Juggling with packets: floating data storage

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Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081949170.7809__10931.1081505895$1065645063@nimue.bos.bindview.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 19:53:41 +0200 (CEST)
From: Michal Zalewski <lcamtuf@...ttot.org>
Cc: full-disclosure@...sys.com
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] RE: [PAPER] Juggling with packets: floating
 data storage

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Alun Jones wrote:

>>   A real juggler would focus on a different kind of outsourced data
> Of course, a real network engineer would remind you that you face two
> immediate problems regarding this technique:
>
> 1. [UDP] Jugglers don't usually have to deal with oranges suddenly
> disappearing in midflight, or being duplicated.

Not really; the problem is trivially solved by maintaining a redundancy of
the data. Choosing the right parameters to maintain realiability is
perhaps the only challenge here, and it depends on the environment and
the set of bounce hosts.

> 2. [TCP] Jugglers don't have to hold onto a copy of their thrown orange
> until such time as the catching hand lets them know that it's been caught.

No need to - the problem is solved by fire-and-forget + redundancy,
likening TCP to UDP; in addition, the paper proposes a method of storing
data using mechanisms such as a sustained command on the remote server,
where there is no need to resend the data on a regular basis, so even if
you use reliable TCP/IP stack, there is no need to keep any data for an
extended period of time on your end.

Cheers,
-- 
------------------------- bash$ :(){ :|:&};: --
 Michal Zalewski * [http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx]
    Did you know that clones never use mirrors?
--------------------------- 2003-10-08 19:49 --

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