Message-ID: <40E18C68.4010206@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 11:36:08 -0400
From: William Warren <hescominsoon@...anuelcomputerconsulting.com>
Cc: bugtraq@...urityfocus.com, NTBugtraq@...tserv.ntbugtraq.com,
   full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: Re: Microsoft and Security


i am not having a lonely browsing experience...all the security 
sites i visit work jsut fine.  I msut be missing some.  I missed 
the security researcher's list of sites that did not work in 
anything but ie.  What was the thread title and i will happily 
search the archives..find it..and test the findings as well..:)

Ron DuFresne wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, William Warren wrote:
> 
> 
>>Frankly if i hit a site that does not work in mozilla..i email
>>the webmaster..if they are unable or unwilling to support mozilla
>>then i simply do not go to that site anymore..:)
>>
> 
> 
> Which can leave you with a lonely web-browsing experience.  I recall a
> well known security researcher/expert not too long ago in the past
> givening up on his stance of avoiding security related sites that relied
> upon content that was potentially unsafe.  He soon found there were few
> security sites he could actually browse.
> 
> There are a number  of applications that are IE centric as well,
> applications that often end up in corprate evn's...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ron DuFresne
> 
> 
> 
>>Nancy Kramer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There are lots of sites written only for IE or clones of IE like Opera.
>>>Some large sites are written only for late model IEs.  Many are from
>>>large companies.  Big business thinks MS is the state of the art and the
>>>only way to go for business.  You have a choice do it their way or don't
>>>get the benefits of their web site.  They play to the user who has AOL,
>>>uses only IE and Outlook with all the defaults on because if MS does it
>>>it must be right and they really have no interest in changing things or
>>>knowing about them.  People believe they are protected by big companies
>>>like MS.  They are fools but then like a friend of mine always says
>>>"business people are stupid".
>>>
>>>They believe that the US government should protect them from hackers and
>>>spam.  That cannot be done but they don't understand that  and neither
>>>do the US legislators.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Nancy Kramer
>>>Webmaster http://www.americandreamcars.com
>>>Free Color Picture Ads for Collector Cars
>>>One of the Ten Best Places To Buy or Sell a Collector Car on the Web
>>>
>>>
>>>At 05:23 PM 6/28/2004, Burnes, James wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Well, this is an predictable, but interesting quote from IDefense...
>>>>
>>>>[IDefense linked the malicious attacks to a group by a different name
>>>>called the hangUP team, also from Russia and also believed to be
>>>>responsible for the recent string of Korgo worms, Dunham said.
>>>>
>>>>"These are hackers for hire and they commoditize every piece of
>>>>information they capture. This was a very complicated and sophisticated
>>>>attack," he said.
>>>>
>>>>Security experts were still trying to determine Friday how IIS servers
>>>>were compromised and whether applying the latest patches for IIS and
>>>>Internet Explorer would protect users from the attacks.
>>>>
>>>>"My gut feeling is (patching) doesn't protect you," Dunham said. "If I
>>>>were a home user, I'd consider using another Web browser, like Mozilla,
>>>>until a patch comes out," he said.]  (nwfusion - 06/25/2004)
>>>>
>>>>Well, of course.  By why go back to IE unless someone wrote apps that
>>>>only run on IE and what's the point of that.  Might as well write them
>>>>in VB.
>>>>
>>>>jim burnes
>>>>security engineer
>>>>great-west, denver
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com [mailto:full-disclosure-
>>>>>admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of http-equiv@...ite.com
>>>>>Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 9:41 AM
>>>>>To: bugtraq@...urityfocus.com
>>>>>Cc: NTBugtraq@...tserv.ntbugtraq.com; full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
>>>>>Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Microsoft and Security
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Where is Microsoft now "protecting their customers" as they love
>>>>>to bray? Should not someone in authority of this public company
>>>>>step forward and explain themselves at this time?
>>>>>
>>>>>All of sudden panic is being created across the WWW with "IIS
>>>>>Exploit Infecting Web Site Visitors With Malware", "Mysterious
>>>>>Attack Hits Web Servers", "Researchers warn of infectious Web
>>>>>sites" all stemming from all news accounts from an
>>>>>unpatched "problem" with Internet Explorer now two weeks old and
>>>>>counting, which in fact in reality stems from 10 months ago,
>>>>>that being the adodb.stream safe for scripting control with
>>>>>write capabilities.
>>>>>
>>>>>What exactly is being done about this? Nothing. What does
>>>>>multiple billions of dollars buy you today. Nothing. However for
>>>>>$20 million you can almost fly to the moon.
>>>>>
>>>>>Someone ought to step forward and explaini what exactly is
>>>>>happening at this public company. The great "protector of their
>>>>>customers". One might even suggest that their entire "security"
>>>>>mandate be re-examined. What exactly do they consider a
>>>>>vulnerability? Something that suits them or something that's
>>>>>cost effective to fix. So what, a few people lose their
>>>>>identities, have a few dollars extracted from their bank
>>>>>accounts, have their home pages reset, we'll fix it when it
>>>>>suits us as we have to be on budget this quarter. The  Big Boss
>>>>>says $40 billion isn't enough this year.
>>>>>
>>>>>A vulnerability:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/community/columns/securi
>>>>>ty/essays/vulnrbl.mspx
>>>>>
>>>>>"A security vulnerability is a flaw in a product that makes it
>>>>>infeasible - even when using the product properly-to prevent an
>>>>>attacker from usurping privileges on the user's system,
>>>>>regulating its operation, compromising data on it, or assuming
>>>>>ungranted trust."
>>>>>
>>>>>what this gibberish? For the past 10 months the adobd.stream
>>>>>object is capable of writing files to the "all important
>>>>>customer's" computer. It has real world consequences. It rapes
>>>>>their computer. Does it fit into the gibberish custom
>>>>>definition. Plain and simple: "A security vulnerability is a
>>>>>flaw in a product that makes it infeasible". What kind of
>>>>>language is this. Reads like the financial department conjured
>>>>>it up.
>>>>>
>>>>>Disabling scripting won't solve it. Putting sites in one of the
>>>>>myriad of "zones' won't solve it. Internet Explorer can
>>>>>trivially be fooled into operating in the less than secure so-
>>>>>called "intranet zone" and it can be guided there remotely.
>>>>>
>>>>>What's happening here. Where is the Microsoft representative
>>>>>explaining all of this to the shareholders and "customers" they
>>>>>so dearly wish to protect.  This is unacceptable.  Someone must
>>>>>be held accountable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>http://www.malware.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>>>Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>>Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>
>>
>>--
>>My "Foundation" verse:
>>Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper;
>>and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou
>>shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,
>>and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
>>
>>-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity.  It
> eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the
> business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation." -- Johnny Hart
> 	***testing, only testing, and damn good at it too!***
> 
> OK, so you're a Ph.D.  Just don't touch anything.
> 
> 

-- 
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; 
and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou 
shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, 
and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html

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