bugtraq - Re: PHP as a secure language? PHP worms? [was: Re: new linux malware]

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Message-ID: <c524f8960602241313j20d7ad11j7b70e37aca791f23@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:13:56 -0600
From: "Matthew Schiros" <schiros@...il.com>
To: "Kevin Waterson" <kevin@...ania.net>
Cc: bugtraq@...urityfocus.com
Subject: Re: PHP as a secure language? PHP worms? [was: Re: new linux malware]

PHP, like any and all projects, does indeed have security flaws.  So
does MySQL.  So does Linux.  So does sshd.  So does Windows.  To claim
that we should abandon any individual service simply because it has
security bugs is absurd.  Yes, there are non-trivial problems with
PHP's memory management, but the same could easily be said for Java as
well.

I don't really get Gadi's point.  Is he claiming that keeping up to
date on security fixes is too much of a hassle for him?  Or is he
claiming that he doesn't want to use PHP applications, because they
are often riddled with security holes?  Or is he just bitching in
general that there's insecure software out there?  It seems like it's
probably the latter.  When's the last time you saw a super-secure
program written in Perl, or ColdFusion, or ASP, or any other web
language for that matter?  People do buffer overflow attacks on Apache
all the time, is he planning on abandoning that?

Security requires vigilance, get over it.

On 2/22/06, Kevin Waterson <kevin@...ania.net> wrote:
> This one time, at band camp, Gadi Evron <ge@...uxbox.org> wrote:
>
>
> > 3. Staying on top of new PHP vulnerabilities has become impossible,
> > popping around everywhere.
>
> What vulnerabilities in PHP?
> Are implying the fault is within the language itself?
> This is akin to saying C has vulnerabilites because some script kiddie
> wrote a poor application.
>
> >
> > 4. Determining how secure a PHP application is, looking at the code and
> > for how silly past vulnerabilities were (i.e. looking at the coder
> > rather than the code) is now more important than the actual application.
>
> As with all web based technologies, security should be the foundation of the application
>
> > Much like their self criticism said, PHP needs to grow to a far more
> > secure language, much like we need to chose more carefully what PHP
> > software we use.
> Which self critism is this?
>
> >
> > Some of us have been joking for a while about creating a script to
> > choose from different paragraph we create, and email bugtraq
> > re-assembling the randomly with a new PHP bug and a random PHP
> > application name every few hours. Would any of us be able to readily
> > tell the difference?
>
> Perhaps we can do the same for linux kernel problems and blame it on C?
>
> Kind regards
> Kevin
>
>
> --
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
>