Message-ID: <009901cae701$4e112350$010000c0@ml>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 21:33:13 +0300
From: "MustLive" <mustlive@...security.com.ua>
To: <nant@...mlapolis.com>
Cc: <bugtraq@...urityfocus.com>
Subject: Re: Vulnerability in CB Captcha for Joomla and Mambo

Hello Nick aka Nant and Bugtraq!

This Nant's letter I found some time ago (and now found time to write answer
on it) and I found it accidentally, because I'm not subscribed to Bugtraq
mailing list. So Nant and every reader of the list must take it into
account (and send letters to my email, if they want to contact me).

And this is that example of letter from developer, which I mentioned last
week at the list. Which clearly shows, that web developers ignore advisory
about holes in CaptchaSecurityImages.php itself, and only draw attention on
advisories about their specific web applications. So in my answer I'll draw
attention to this aspect of Nant's letter.

> Some facts for those reading:

Nick, the more facts, the better - it'll show the whole picture. So I'll add
other facts which you forgot to mention.

> MustLive notified us on 13.4.2010 - that's 13 days after disclosure.

As I wrote in my advisory (in "Timeline") there were next important dates:

17.03.2010 - found vulnerability.
31.03.2010 - disclosed at my site.
01.04.2010 - informed developer of CB Captcha 1.x. And because I found other
version of the plugin by another author, and after checking it later I
informed author of CB Captcha 2.x.
13.04.2010 - additionally informed developers of Community Builder (both
joomlapolis.com and communitybuilder.ru).

Here are other dates:

27.03.2007 - developers of CaptchaSecurityImages.php fixed this hole at
their own site and wrote the recommendations to fix this captcha bypass
(http://www.white-hat-web-design.co.uk/articles/php-captcha.php). I.e. it
was more than 3 years ago. And CB Captcha developers ignored that, and
didn't do anything until I informed them and even after that they were
fixing hole slowly, creating different justifications for themselves,
including telling that it's not a hole. Did you (developers of CB Captcha)
think about why original author fixed that hole in 2007 (and they had this
hole almost one year after creating of the script, but when they understood
the fact of the hole they fixed it).
17.03.2010 - I disclosed at my site the vulnerabilities in
CaptchaSecurityImages (http://websecurity.com.ua/4043/) and at 22.03.2010 I
reported about it to Bugtraq. It was 9 days before I disclosed at my site
the hole in CB Captcha (which is similar to hole in CaptchaSecurityImages).

This is important thing, which clearly shows, as I mentioned earlier, that
web developers ignore advisory about holes in CaptchaSecurityImages.php
itself, and only draw attention on advisories about their specific web
applications. Developers of CB Captcha just didn't draw attention about my
advisory in security mailing lists (from 22.03.2010) about holes in
CaptchaSecurityImages, but they drew attention at my letter (and to my
advisory posted in Bugtraq) about holes in CB Captcha.

Which shows importance of making separate advisories of vulnerabilities in
software which are using CaptchaSecurityImages.php (some uses its original
code, and some other, like CB Captcha, uses rewritten code of original
script, so it's not always completely the same code). It can be due to that
fact, the developers and admins which are using different engines could
forget or even don't know, that in their webapp there is such web
application as CaptchaSecurityImages.php. But when they see advisory about
specific webapp which they are using, they will draw attention at it.

It's good that at least developers of CB Captcha 2.x and Community Builder
answered me and decided to fix the hole. Because developers of Russian forks
of CB Captcha 1.x and Community Builder didn't answered me and obviously
they'd not fix the hole.

Also Nick mentioned about that I contacted them after 13 days after
disclosure (at my site). Man, from two above mentioned dates 27.03.2007 and
17.03.2010 you can see that it's not justification for developers of CB
Captcha. And also note, that after I disclosed this hole at 31.03.2010, I
found that there are two different versions of plugin (and I checked only
1.x and wrote ay my site only about affected 1.x). And after I contacted at
01.04.2010 developers of 1.x and after I found time to check 2.x version of
plugin at 13.04.2010, I wrote about this version at my site and contacted
developers of 2.x. I.e. I have contacted developers of CB Captcha 2.x just
after few minutes after I wrote at my site about vulnerable version 2.x.

So I hope for you and for readers of mailing list is everything clear with
the dates and the facts :-).

It's about dates, and now about vulnerabilities.

> This should not be classified as any kind of vulnerability as there is no
> way that any harm can be done to a website using this script.

It's not serious statement. This is known for a long time class of
vulnerability. If you didn't read WASC TC yet, then you'd better read it.

First, this is Insufficient Anti-automation vulnerability. The class
Insufficient Anti-automation is listed in WASC Threat Classification v1
(released in 2004) and in Threat Classification v2 (released in 2010). In TC
v2 it's also referenced as WASC-21.

Second, this attack is directed on the site. This hole doesn't belong to
Client-side Attacks (TC v.1), but to Logical Attacks (TC v.1) and is using
against site itself. And it can be used for different malicious actions.

Best wishes & regards,
MustLive
Administrator of Websecurity web site
http://websecurity.com.ua

Re: Vulnerability in CB Captcha for Joomla and Mambo Apr 16 2010 02:04PM
nant joomlapolis com


> Hello viewers.
>
> This is Nick (aka nant) - one of the original (not the forked Russian
> version) CB Captcha plugin developers. We are responsible for version 2.2
> that is referenced in the report.
>
> Some facts for those reading:
>
> MustLive notified us on 13.4.2010 - that's 13 days after disclosure.
>
> This should not be classified as any kind of vulnerability as there is no
> way that any harm can be done to a website using this script.
>
> The CB Captcha 2.2 plugin, as all similar Captcha scripts, are used to
> insure that human intervention is needed. The "bug" (at best) reported
> only allows a single user seeing the generated Captcha image, to use its
> code during the active session period.
>
> There is no harm that can be done to the system using this. Thus while
> this is a bit of odd behavior it does not represent a asecurity flaw.
>
> This will be fixed however as soon as possible.
>
> Thank you.

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