Message-ID: <005701c244a7$373a73c0$59a2869f@vitalograph.ie>
From: fulldisclose at uuuppz.com (James Martin)
Subject: An urgent warning to all concerning ~el8 / project mayhem (fwd)

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Complete support from me. These kids may have real issues to bring up,
but treating the community like this serves to only alienate them. If
I am to understand correctly we now not only face the increasing
threats of legal action for publishing research but also "action" from
"fellow" community members, almost certainly using *our* tools. 

Regards
James

Web: http://www.uuuppz.com
Email:  me@...ppz.com

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron DuFresne" <dufresne@...ternet.com>
To: <full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:10 PM
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] An urgent warning to all concerning ~el8 /
project mayhem (fwd)


> 
> 
> It seems that the whitehat community is under a new attack, putting
fear
> into the souls of some reputed security experts, leaving them to
now,
> rather then admonish these spoiled children, to rather brag them up
and
> promote what some are referring to as their fine skillsets and
tools.  I'm
> sure this comes as dismal to many in our community, as well as
myself,
> that not only is such an attack sending some into this position of
> subcumming to the whims of minor-terrorists and in a fashion,
condoning
> them to some point in an attempt to avoid becoming ridiculed with
attacks
> upon the systems and servers the fellow security folks are running
and
> finding compromised repeatedly in recent weeks.  In other words,
like the
> quotes cited in the article mentioned in the forwared posting below,
some
> are paying a verbal ransom to these little brats.  At least one
security
> related list is being pretty much held hostage to the onslaught of
spew
> mentioned in the posting and article it cites.
> 
> Now if we were managaing the list, and trying to maintain the policy
of
> un-moderation, we'd at least unsubscribe each spamming spewer to it.
 For
> there's one thing anyone that has raised children come to
understand, it's
> that they tire quickly of having to put forth too much effort into
their
> games.  Certainly we see the tendency to pay homage to their rants
and
> nasty little hacking ventures into the systems of others as feeding
right
> into what many of Marcus' recent comments to the reportings of the
SANS
> weekly security digests highlight;
> 
> [Editor's Note (Ranum): It doesn't matter what the maximum is, when
> the minimum is the slap on the wrist that hackers usually get.
> 
> [Editor's Note (Ranum: A violation of the public trust in the US:
> 1-2 years. A $360 stolen credit card transaction in Indonesia: up to
> 11 years. No wonder we have so many problems like this.]
> 
> <see the most recent SANS digest; SANS NewsBites Vol. 4 Num. 33,
from this
> week for the related stories to these comments>
> 
> Seems folks are doing just what Marcus has long been promoting
against,
> rewarding these silly little kids for their games and intrusions and
> minor-terroistic rantings.  This only serves to encourage not to
train
> them to potty properly as they must have been mistrained in their
earliest
> years.  Rather the community bands together to publically spank the
little
> fewls with some deserved time-outs from society.  Articles like the
one
> citing a number of 'security professionals' like te one mentioned in
the
> forwarded post does diminish some respect for these folks feeding
the kids
> in their attempts at public tantrums and rantings for attention...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ron DuFresne
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