From: misha at cerber.no (Mikhail Iakovlev)
Subject: Off Topic2

You know, after all, del button works perfectly. Thanks for advise, I am 
emptying trash more than ever. Today 16 messages already just on 
"off-topic". Seems like we're gonna see more "off-topic" things on this 
list than original subject.

Yeah,I'm on side of whitehat, but I still like to poke in code and find 
interesting things. I am just surprised that so far I haven't seen 
ANYTHING useful on this list except Michal Zalewski's publication. 

At least he means serious, his ideas are great and I have great respect 
for this man, after looking at his way of programming.

How about the rest of you listen to your sences and think again what you 
want to do with this list?

Since it is unmoderated, it has good and bad sides. But do you really want 
it to be like hearing all neighbours fighting, insulting, trying to beat 
your own self-inconfidence by insulting others?

It doesn't apply to all of you of course, but usually people who are 
confident in their minds don't treat others like shit.

Wording is essential too, in my opinion. Why people want to write like 
gobbles do?(ps3ud0-l33t h4x0r etc.) 
Self-inconfident.
Why?

Bad childhood, insults from parents? Problem is deeper.
Or....bad influence by the street environment, and his "wannabe" is higher 
than anything else in his eyes. 
Or just too young yet.

People who know "price" of their heads/brains don't scream around wild in 
nationalistic colors towards Americans/Chinese/rest of the world.
If I would say I am from Russia - would you stick a label of "communist 
pig" to me, even if you never met me? Something tells me that inconfident 
people would. Smart ones wouldn't, because you cannot achieve higher 
position by pushing others.
Works in short term - never works in long term.

I was expected to see interesting people here, who are creative, involved 
with interesting projects, and what do we see here instead?
Rumours, insults, weeping, bad poetry, all kind of garbage. 
I'll stick around for a while to see if I can see something useful - maybe 
I stay, maybe I won't, depends on usefullness of this list as feed for my 
brain.

And no, not because I want to offer 0-day exploits to customer. If I want, 
I can write it myself, and not for money. 
FOR FUN. 

And I'm not gonna run around and root boxes in wild - Why?
Did you ever root 1, 10, 100, 500, 1000 boxes? All the same methods, 
all the same rutines in hiding tracks - always looking for boxes that are rootable, 
where admins are stupid and careless morons. Does it make you feel better 
- that you are BETTER THAN ADMIN? Sure it does, because you in fact is not 
better, you are the same as that stupid guy, except you were just more 
lucky that you found his box. Would you understand it? No, because you 
are great in your own eyes no matter what:)
Did you get knowledge? Nope...you were not the one who coded exploit, 
and you would say to all of your friends how leet you are.

So..point is...what would you do with 1000 rooted boxes? Getting 
1001-2000-10000 boxes rooted? What do you gain at the end?
Nothing, except being bored of the same rutines of doing it and knowing 
fact that there will _always_ be people who are stupid, and always people 
who are smart, and always people who are just fraction more active than 
others and more lucky.

Would you need to root 10000 boxes just to come to that conclusion?

If you do - be blackhat until you come to this point.Just know this - 
you're wasting your time, which is MOST valuable thing you have in life - 
you cannot turn your biological clock back, than one day you realize that 
you are not 17 any more, and want stability in your life. And it just 
could be too late, where other factors like your country's economic system 
is bad, high unemployment etc - you would be out of job. Seen it before, 
see it now, and will see it in the future - happaning all over the world 
to many ex-hackers who just happen to wake up too late...

I spent many years in getting boxes rooted, than became consultant and 
started for a change to help people. Guess what - it's a LOT more fun than what I did 
before. And money is not greatest in it. It makes you feel that you did 
something good, not just for feeling leet, but in fact did something good 
for OTHERS. 

It makes difference.

Many of you might disagree, but read it again, and I hope some of you will 
get my point.

Cheers,

Mik-



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