full-disclosure - [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm

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From: pauls at utdallas.edu (Schmehl, Paul L)
Subject: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm

Here's a question for you.  Which would you prefer?

1) An uninformed user plugs in a router and thinks they are now safe
from any and all exploits without having to do anything else - ever.
2) An uninformed user who downloads and installs a PFW and then
discovers that all sorts of applications he's been running want to
"contact" the Internet.  Now he has to decide what's good and what's
bad.  Oh, and he's also being notified when something tries to access
his machine, which *might* make him paranoid but will *certainly*
increase his awareness.

I'd rather have number 2.  At least he will learn something.  You seem
to think that routers are plug and forget.  That's a dangerous
assumption.  Others have indicated that they think that being NAT'd is
the answer to security.  That's another dangerous assumption.

At least with the PFW the user is going to be exposed to the bad stuff
that goes on all the time.  Perhaps then, when they *do* get a router,
they'll realize that they can't just plug it in and forget it exists.

Paul Schmehl (pauls@...allas.edu)
Adjunct Information Security Officer
The University of Texas at Dallas
AVIEN Founding Member
http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: JT [mailto:ptourvi1@...ny.rr.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:13 AM
To: 'Shawn McMahon'; full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm

This is a lame basis for your argument. You provide 2 vulnerabilities
that are old. Everything has vulnerabilities, I will not waste my time
search ZA for one, it's in there, it's a proven statistic. Now, explain
to me how having one of your uninformed users make a decision for every
app that wants to access the internet is better than plugging a router
in and being done for the most part. Which is easier? Right, the router
is easier because they just plug it in and go. You would have us believe
that these "inept" users WITHOUT ANY computer person are going to be
smart enough to FIND zone alarm, INSTALL it, CONFIGURE it, and then
decide each time anything wants to hit the net. Please, spend 30 more
seconds and show me some CURRENT vulnerabilities.