Message-ID: <20030612215419.20198.qmail@hackermail.com>
From: haywire_x at hackermail.com (Z N)
Subject: "hacker/cracker/phreaks/ get'n deep on FD

**Mad_Pandaz says"

Damn Northern Snowfall  Thats sum d33p shiz!  You just nailed it to the ground.

"Hacker" is a term point blank... Hacking is an action. can be sporting can be artform??  you call it.

People who break the law are called "CRIMINALS"  if there caught there labeled with it via state record.
that qualifies them as criminal. by the states veiw. by the mass conforming...

Think Genre'????  maybe that will be your stance for perspective.. Wher are you peeps, Who are you peeps?
  
I think the taboo on Hacking ended   with like the movie wargames.. earl 80's  right?  Mainstream nex Gen genre has excepted the difference in PRO_activation and Violation. If you do harm your justa a F$#ker!!!

F.D  kicks ass!

All you biznatches.. out there "Hell No to Moderation" 

HayWire_X>>MAD-PANDA
Open your mind,Open your Eyez, open your heart and you'll realize.......






-----Original Message-----
From: northern snowfall [mailto:dbailey27@...ritech.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:10 PM
To: List Bot
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Full-Disclosure] USDOJ BRAINWASHING TECHNIQUES]

>
>
>Len, if Donnie is moderated, what's the threshold for calling his post noise?
>Although snowfall suggests the option of skipping Donnie's posts, he didn't
>this time, and snowfall's response raises an important issue in whether we
>should sit back and allow DoJ to bend language to its own means.
>
Hey, I saw "USDOJ BRAINWASHING" and just couldn't resist :)

I completely understand your point about making a parallel of
racism to the 'hacker' definition issue. I do agree to a lot
of it. Though, we aren't talking about race or religion. We
are talking about malicious criminal activity.

We aren't associating a race of people with a certain skin
color or religious bias. We are associating a group of people
that may (or may not) attempt to adhere to the old flavor of
definition: one that attempts to manipulate a medium to its
end toward a specific benefit.

Remember, the DoJ didn't define the language. The media did
while many 'hackers' sat back and allowed them to because they
were the ones doing technical support for the movies or
television shows.

Did you ever notice in the movie 'Enemy of the State' when
they're tracking the environmentalist? Seth Green's character
asks for satellite support and promptly receives it. Who
does he thank? "Thanks, Mudge..."

I'm not saying we should blame Mudge. If we choose to blame him
why not blame Fyodor, Dvorak and Lcamtuf for helping perpetuate
a 'hacker' connotation in Matrix Reloaded? They're allowed to
enjoy recognition based on the fruits of their labor.

"Hacker" isn't a race. You weren't born into it with your skin
raining bright purple down upon some caucasian masses. You make
a conscious choice to define the term in your own way, either
for good or for bad based on the actions you take against the
regulations of a set society. Don't get mad when those actions
become concentrated into a facet of sub society: cryptologist,
mathematician, electrician, ... hacker.

You're acting like life is somehow defined by some web page on
the internet just because it is maintained by the Department of
Justice. Just because they use the term 'hacker' somehow all
individuals reading it will associate these terms for the rest
of their lives in the context defined by the web site? That, in
itself, is a fool's game.

Don't forget that we have a choice. A very specific choice. If
somehow people's minds would have been "brainwashed" in the 40's
50's, 60's (and later) do you think African Americans would have
broken through the boundaries of racism? Do you think women would
be as respected today? Those people weren't brainwashed by the
government. They knew they had a choice to listen and formulate
their own ideas, despite their age.

Look around you. We define our terms over time, altering the given
definition with the actions presented by the users of the term. If
you want a term to change, just use it day to day with your given
work. I don't stray from using the term "hacker" to describe myself.
I'm proud of the background of the word and its original meaning.
People may be initially be startled at my blatant use of the word.
However, once they are introduced to my character and my work's intent,
they begin to see the other world of "hackerisms" without any debate,
argument or lecture.

Children are taught in the terms they've learned. When a child has
been brought up with the word "spick" describing Mexican or Spanish
people, they must be taught with that very word what a Mexican or
Spanish person really is.

Hip hop culture recently did this with the word "nigger" by
incorporating the song into their music in a positive context. They
attempted to change the perception of "nigger" by using the very
word in a different light, which showed wide success in our younger
generations. People like DMX, Ice Cube, Eminem, etc consciously
chose to use this term differently, rather than sitting back and
letting the slang tie them up while they did nothing but complain.

Don't act like everyone but you gets the final word. Fight for what
you believe in with every action you take on. And if those actions
negate a positive image of "hacker", ask yourself where the problem
is coming from.

But, hey, what do I care, I'm just a spick and a hacker :)

Don

http://deadchildren.org/~north_



>

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HayWire_X>>MAD-PANDA
Open your mind,Open your Eyez, open your heart and you'll realize.......
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