Message-ID: <005601c3582d$6ade44f0$bc01280a@jbankston>
From: suse at mail.bciassociates.com (Jeff Bankston)
Subject: CounterAttack

Phil, I have to echo the other comments, because sometimes your return fire
invites an escalation before you know all of the facts. We spend alot of
time in the forensics of an attack to understand if first it is _us_ letting
the vunerability in where we coulde have simply made our systems, firewalls,
and perimeter routers more secure in the first place.

Next, as sensitive as these attacks have become, your launching even a
single strike could invoke your ISP's eyre and get your connection
disconnected before you have a chance to defend what was done to you in the
first place.

We usually take the tact of

1. understanding the probe/attack
2. identifying the intruder
3. gathering forensics data
4. attempt to stop/mitigate the attack
5. approach your ISP and the attackers source about the attack with the
forensics data

If the attacks don't stop, you can then use the forensics data to attempt
legal action if you feel it is warranted. We've only threatened legal action
once, and that was after the ISP just refused to believe that they were
hacked themselves but later found out how/where/why using our forensics
data. Everyone else has been pretty good about it.

-Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolbow, Phil" <PDolbow@...Texas.com>
Newsgroups: Security.Full-Disclosure
To: "'Andy Wood'" <andy@...italindustry.org>;
<full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] CounterAttack


Andy et al..

Being of military (Infantry) origin I am quite prone to want to take
the offensive and fire back at a high rate of fire on a system that
is assaulting mine. I don't however do so as then I become one of the
bad guys, and in my opinion, step over the line.

I am interested though what the list members think about this. I would
like to pose these questions:

If your network is PROBED by another system, where do you draw your line?

A) Log the data and otherwise do nothing.
B) Probe the other system.
C) Infiltrate the other system, but do no damage.
D) Shut the other system down.
E) Destroy the other system.
F) Destroy the other system and all others around it.

If your network is ATTACKED by another system, where do you draw your line?

A) Log the data and otherwise do nothing.
B) Probe the other system.
C) Infiltrate the other system, but do no damage.
D) Shut the other system down.
E) Destroy the other system.
F) Destroy the other system and all others around it.

Thanks for your feedback.

-=Phil=-



-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Wood [mailto:andy@...italindustry.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 20:30 PM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] DCOM RPC exploit (dcom.c)


> FYI, Incidents.org reports: "Widespread scans for unpatched Windows
> machines underway (RPC vulnerability). Patch systems and block ports
> 135-139 & 445".

NetBIOS Scans haven't necessarily increased.  I can't believe that
any port is more sought out than NetBIOS.  I see 139 and 445 more than any
other port, and it has been that way for more than 2 years.  But it isn't
without good reason....if you get probed for 139 or 445, probe back; 8 out
of 10 times it is open, and that system is infected with a worm.  Then hit
'em with a smbclient or Winfingerprint, get that password policy and
username/share list, find the weak password and welcome to their
network......or dcom.c, that works too.

Andy


-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
[mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of Knud Erik
H?jgaard
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 8:14 PM
To: Peter Kruse; full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com

Peter Kruse wrote:

> FYI, Incidents.org reports: "Widespread scans for unpatched Windows
> machines underway (RPC vulnerability). Patch systems and block ports
> 135-139 & 445".
>
> This might be caused by several tools in the hands of kiddies probing
> IP?s for vulnerable systems. This could also be caused by a worm
> making it?s first round crashing and exploiting boxes. I guess time
> will tell.

when it strikes, it won't be silent.

> BTW - nothing here, it?s all quite around my firewalls.

quiets? wait and see.

--
kokasviiijn

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