Message-ID: <14A490F0F982C641B8676869ADE5E5A599D896@phnsdalnt09.corp.phns.com>
From: Brian.Perry at phns.com (Perry, Brian)
Subject: Terrorist UFO hackers killed the grid

Heh, <huge grin>!

I must post this...
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/mufonontario/archive/blkout.htm

I must have been terrorist, UFO hackers that caused the grid to fail... 

Honestly though, due to cost constraints, human nature, etc....I find it
unlikely that mankind will ever create a fault-proof system of any kind.
And I don't see why lightning or other sources could not cause a relay
failure (as in 65) that could overload an already overloaded grid. 

Regarding the rumors (Slashdot, etc.)...I do agree about the horribly
vulnerable SCADA and other systems that control all our grids. (Having
participated in some vulnerability assessments of those systems) It
really doesn't matter (as much, thanks MS if you were a part of this
mess) what OS is run as there will always be interfaces, modems, etc.
attached to them. Unless a complete change of policy occurs, this will
continue be the case. 

Moderator, please censor my garbage and others' like it from ever
reaching the list. 

Anyone got 0day UFO code?




-----Original Message-----
From: Myers, Marvin [mailto:MRMyers@...eon.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 1:05 PM
To: cta@...in.net; full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] The Grid, Blaster v. Poor Security
Engineering

Not only is it ridiculous, it goes against everything that the power
companies have been telling us for years. If anyone has ever stood
outside during a thunderstorm and watched lightening bounce back and
forth across wires and transformers, then they will know that this is
bull. A single lightening strike while being able to cause significant
damage has never been proven able to bring down such a large portion of
the grid in the past. And if this were the case, they would be showing
the damage as soon as possible to quell and or stop the conspiracy and
doomsday theorists in their tracks. I know from experience, having done
work in several foreign countries, that even though we may live in a
free society, we are spoon fed only the information that the government
wants us to have. When information does leak out that they do not want
us to have, it is called a scandal. It gets reported on widely until the
news stops selling and then we move on to the next one. 
I am not paranoid, I know that they are out to get me. But I live my
life to the fullest and am having fun during the journey.



-----Original Message-----
From: Bernie, CTA [mailto:cta@...in.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 12:21 PM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] The Grid, Blaster v. Poor Security
Engineering

It is ridiculous to accept that a lightning strike could knock 
out the grid. There are many redundant fault, limit and Voltage-
Surge Protection safeguards and related instrumentation and 
switchgear installed at the distribution centers and along the 
Power Grid that would have tripped to prevent or otherwise 
divert such a major outage. 

I believe that the outage was caused by the blaster, or its 
mutation, besieged upon the respective vulnerability in the 
systems (SCADA and otherwise) running MS 2000 or XP, located 
different points along the Grid. Some of these systems are 
accessible via the Internet, while others are accessible by POTS 
dialup, or private Frame relay and dedicated connectivity.

It is also reasonable to assume that we could have a similar 
security threat regarding those system (SCADA and otherwise 
based on MS 2000 or XP) involved in the control, data 
acquisition, and maintenance of other critical infrastructure, 
such as inter/intra state GAS Distribution, Nuclear Plant 
Monitoring, Water and Sewer Processing, and city Traffic 
Control. IMO

I think we will see a lot of finger pointing by government 
agencies, Utilities, and politicians for the Grid outage, until 
someone confess to the security dilemma and vulnerabilities in 
the systems which are involved in running this critical 
infrastructure.

Regardless of whether the outage can be attributed to the 
blaster or its variant, this is not entirely a Microsoft 
problem, as it cuts to poor System Security Engineering. 

Nonetheless, the incident will cause lots of money to be 
earmarked by the US and Canadian Governments, to be spent in an 
attempt to solve the problem, or more specifically calm the 
public.


-
****************************************************
Bernie 
Chief Technology Architect
Chief Security Officer
cta@...in.net
Euclidean Systems, Inc.
*******************************************************
// "There is no expedient to which a man will not go 
//    to avoid the pure labor of honest thinking."   
//     Honest thought, the real business capital.    
//      Observe> Think> Plan> Think> Do> Think>      
*******************************************************


_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html




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