From: JThomas at poweronemedia.com (Joshua Thomas)
Subject: RE: Certs.

I agree with your rant, on some level. Some certs are easy to get, and
employers are now wary of them. On the other hand, an individual with  solid
work experience can benefit from a certification. 

Someone with no experience and a cert is not going to get taken very
seriously. 

Some of the certs are extremely difficult to get, and those individuals
rightly deserve the six-digit salaries they get from having them. Have you
seen the requirements for the CCIE and the GIAC? Those are some seriously
hard certifications. A friend of mine compares the CCIE to obtaining a
masters degree. 

Some stats I found:

Total of Routing and Switching CCIEs: 9192*
Total of Security CCIEs: 222*
Total of Communications and Services CCIEs: 76*
*Does not include CCIE's who have inactive status.
from:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/le3/le11/learning_ccie_population.html

Cheers,

Joshua Thomas
Network Operations Engineer
PowerOne Media, Inc.
tel: 518-687-6143
jthomas@...eronemedia.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Ludwig [mailto:ALudwig@...fingroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 3:33 PM
To: 'Disclosure Full'
Subject: RE: [fd] RE: [Full-Disclosure] [Fwd: Edwards AFB shut down by
W32 Blaster] (fwd)


<rant>
I nominate this thread most useless thread EVAR!

With that being said, can you guys please move on, and repeat after me.
CERTS MEAN NOTHING!

I know  several people who have certs that run *nix machines who are
complete idiots for the simple fact that they have not expanded their
horizons past a command prompt.  I also know people who wouldn't be able to
properly use dir(or ls) and cd from a command prompt if the fate of the
world depended on it.  So my point is this, shut up already mcse, cissp,
ccie, ccna, ccnp, and what ever else you have behind your name means
absolutely nothing in the real world. Maybe the PHB's in the cube farms and
offices of Corp America care but lets face it in the trenches letters mean
dick.  SO stop ragging on MCSE's simply because it is a Microsoft cert, that
is asinine and completely immature.  I mean think of all the business M$ has
created,  hell if it wasn't for them the INFOSEC field would be 100 or so
Sun consultants running around trying to sell the latest and greatest
(please note the sarcasm in that comment, and yes i know it would be a
totally different market then that).  SO be thankful that good ole Billie
Boy keeps us all so gainfully employed and entertained.

Please take this post for what it is, A RANT!

Andre Ludwig, M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I  <---- 4m 1 l33t n0w?

</rant>


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Vasquez [mailto:mike@...kogre.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:56 AM
To: 'Disclosure Full'
Subject: Re: [fd] RE: [Full-Disclosure] [Fwd: Edwards AFB shut down by
W32Blaster] (fwd)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Cody Bunch" <gbunch@....net>

> Please define the term real MCSE, being as the first word in the acronym
> stands for 'Microsoft'
> it would stand to reason that a real MCSE is nothing more than trained
> 'Microsoft' marketing monkey.

Gee wiz -- sign me up for one of your logic classes, please.  That's
brilliant rock solid reasoning.

Not reality based, but on this list, that doesn't matter. :-)


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