From: measl at mfn.org (J.A. Terranson)
Subject: Bush Bashing (use to be Has Verisign time
 arrived ?)

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Dark Avenger wrote:

> This isn't the place to discuss political and personal views of our 
> country and leadership, but you 2 just opened the door.

Ditto.

> This is typical liberal dribble attacking our president for an "immoral 
> war" and being "weird".

While I am personally familiar with "the liberal dribble" which acknowledges
that Shrub has a propensity for immoral acts, I have yet to see the one that
simply accuses him of being "weird".

> Your only agenda is to try to discredit an 
> administration that finally has some morals and integrity 

Enron.  Halliburton.   Killing 7,000 innocent civilians in a war based on
pure lies.

Ethis?  Morals?  Pass whatever it is you're smoking down here: I can't afford
shit that good!

> and does 
> what's right for the country (and even for the ungrateful world 
> community), unlike the prior administration.

Just because Klinton was also a murderous piece of perjuring dogshit, this
fact does not act in any exculpatory way for Shrub.

> Where were your criticisms when the Clinton administation launched 
> cruise missles into Iraq without UN approval?

Personally, mine weere made public, in an open letter to the bastard
himself.  You can find the letter on Google.  You can also find (if you look
carefully) the followup report from the secret service.

> Where were your criticisms when the Clinton administation attacked 
> Serbia without UN, or even Congress' approval?

See above.

> Where were your criticisms when the Clinton administation bombed an 
> aspirin factory?

Again, see above.  I have clean hands here - I publicly castigated each of
these events.

> Now this isn't about the Clinton administration, but it illustrates the 
> level of hypocrisy of those that bash the current administration.

The hypocrisy that is shown here is yours: your implicit argument is that if
Clinton can get away with it then Shrub should be able to get away with it
too.

> Every nation in the UN agreed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, 
> so you can't pin the label on the Bush administration,

Really?  You are obviously listening to a different UN than the rest of us.

> as if they lied 
> about it and used it as the only reason to liberate the Iraqi people. 

The fact is, they did lie about it - openly and brazenly, and then they
weren't even smart enough to drop a couple of hundred packets of anthrax
around to "prove" their filthy lies.

> This was only 1 of many reasons for going into Iraq, and the liberals 
> are trying to cast it as the only reason.

The other reasons were so obviously overflowing with Truth that the entire
world (the British Protectorate and Spain excluded) refused to act on Shrub's
demands for mutilateral war.

> People like you seem to forget or ignore the 17 UN resolutions that Iraq 
> had violated. 

And what about all of the resolutions that Israel has violated?  Why don't we
go in and kill a couple of dozen Israeli's for *that*?  Hypocrite.

> And how the UN doesn't have enough backbone to enforce 
> their own resolutions.

We never gave them the chance: we took it on ourselves to act unilaterally,
and now that we're stuck in a war we can neither afford nor win, we're crying
how unfair it is that the rest of the world won't help us.  Bullshit.  We
deserve every body bag we get.

> You seem to forget or ignore the routine and systematic torture and 
> execution of political prisoners that Saddam's regime carried out.

Neither.  It is not/was not/ cannot be our problem.  Besides, your Great
Shrub never once claimed that this was a "reason" until AFTER it was obvious
that he had lied (multiple times, places, and ways) to try and justify this
slaughter, and had been caught with his pants down as far as his predecessor
(of course for a different reason).

> You seem to forget or ignore their use of chemical weapons against Iran 
> that resulted in an estimated 600,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqi Kurd's and 
> Iranians dead in 1980 - 1988. 

And where we YOU when this was happening (it was very common knowledge)?  Why
were you not bitching and moaning then?  Not convenient?

> This in itself proves he had weapons of 
> mass destruction, and everyone knows it.

Logical fallacy.

Just because he had them in 1980, does not mean he has them today.  But,
while we're on the topic, you seem to be forgetting something: Iraq is a
SOVEREIGN NATION.  They have every right to all the WMD they can
manufacture.  Just like Israel.  Just like the US.

> They hid entire squads of 
> fighter jets underneath the desert sands, showing how easy it would be 
> to hide small barrels of chemical and biological agents.

Again with the atraw arguments?
 
> You seem to forget or ignore their invasion of Kuwait in 1990-1991.

Which was a non-issue in 2003.  What's wrong - can't come up with anything
they actually *did*, so you have to reach for ancient history?  If you want
to go down that route, then we should all be nuked for refusing the Jewish
emmigrants from Germany a chance to land here.  Yes, that's right, the US was
directly and knowingly responsible for the deaths of *thousands* of Jewish
"boat people".   Under your logic, we should be punished for this ~60 year
old crime *today*.

> You seem to forget or ignore the bloody mass killings of 30,000 to 
> 60,000 Kurd's and Shite's in 1991.

See above.

> You seem to forget or ignore the Rape rooms and imprisoned children and 
> execution rooms used regularly by this regime. And how the women were 
> suppressed and made 2nd class citizens by not being able to be seen in 
> public, or drive, or go to school, or vote (vote? what a laugh, even for 
> those who could).

See above.

> Thank God we finally have an administration that is willing to do what's 
> right to protect us all.

The only thing Shrub is "protecting" is his wallet: you and me don't count.

> This new world we live in since 9/11/2001 (of 
> course you've forgotten about that too, I'm sure)

Oh.  The world has changed because Bush says so?  Or because the US finally
got the bloody nose it has had coming for decades?

> requires us to take 
> the battle to the terrorists and their allies before they take it to us. 

Every petty dictator and despot in history has used this "logic".  All Shrub
did by adopting it was lose whatever moral authority he may have started
with.  He's used this to make a mockery of entire concept of "justice".

> Do you actually think for one minute that Iraq wouldn't hand over WMD to 
> terrorists with the intent of using them on our homeland? 

I believe they would have.

That said, we need to ask ourselves *why* this is the case.  Doctor, heal
thyself...

> This is a 
> pro-active approach to warding off terrorism before it hits again.

This is the schoolyard bully throwing his weight around.  And just like in
school, he's eventually going to piss off enough folkes that they bring the
"war" back to his doorstep - Shrub is leading the idiot cattle to the
slaughter with this crap.

> If 
> this administration hadn't taken this approach, and then we had an 
> attack on LA, or San Francisco, or any other place in the US, then you 
> would have been bashing the administration for not protecting you.

I think you are confusing Bin Laden and Hussein.  Common mistake among the "I
just became a political expert by watching Bush crowd".  That aside, I would
appreciate it if my government would stick to "protecting" me by not making
me a target.  STop financing genocide around the world, and the world will be
less likely to want to retailiate in kind.

> If 
> France, or Germany, or any other nation on this earth had been attacked 
> like we were, then who do you think would be the first people they 
> called upon to help them out? And we would have done it without hesitation.

Um, yeah....  Riiiighhhttttt...
 
> I could go on and on, but this has already turned out to be longer than 
> I expected. 

Yes.  And you have managed to make quite a fool of yourself while we were
here.  

> But we should all be grateful for the actions this 
> administration is taking to make sure we are safer in our homes, despite 
> the bashings of liberals like you.

Safer in our homes???  Oh.  You mean, I'm safer, because instead of having to
worry about "a terrorist" breaking into my home and killing me in the middle
of the night, it's only likely to be a bunch of cops dressed in black Kevlar
who shoot up the place while they pursue The War On <fill in your favorite
boogeyman here>.  Oh, and if they shoot up the wrong place, maybe kill a
couple of innocent people - it was worth it, right?  After all, if you
werenet *really* a criminal, you'd have no complaints.  Hypocrite fuck.

> God Bless the USA, and yes, the President too

The USA needs a 200 megaton enema, with Ground Zero set firmly on Shrubs flat
little ass.

-- 
Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@....org

	"Every living thing dies alone."
	Donnie Darko

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