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From: rlanguy at (Lan Guy)
Subject: Professional Groups

Have you considered the disbenefit of such a move. Your employer could end
up having to pay you less. Force you into a group life savings plan  (saving
the employer money). Force your employer to decide your HMO.

What I think you really mean is that we need an indepentent testing
mechanism, that is not vendor baised, that can judge by a persons knowledge,
education and experience.
But we already have that:

Just look around
Lan Guy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel Sichel" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:31 PM
Subject: [Full-Disclosure] Professional Groups

> > It's time we as a professional group start talking and walking like
> > adults (at least more than in the past), I think. Just playing with
> > computers is fine, but not enough.
> >Agreed.  And believe me, I have spent many an hour trying to figure out
> >how to approach the problem.  Unfortunately, every solution I can come
> >up with involves educating the masses . . . many of whom don't want to
> >be confused with facts . . .  ;>
> This is off topic but I couldn't help myself. What we need is a union.
> Why? Well right now, management generally buys the software that has the
> cutest infobabes, the best promise, or safe branding (Microsoft). If we
> had a union that negotiated a contract that paid us extra for fixing
> software failures or broken installs, so that the bottom line got hurt
> by the crap these people sell, it would take about 5 minutes for the
> priorities to change in purchasing decisions and for SLAs and tech
> support to be ratcheted up where they belong.
> Speaking as a US citizen, if we were Teamsters and honored their picket
> lines think of the leverage we would have. Scab truck drivers are
> available, but imagine the chaos of scab sys admins or firewall
> administrators? And of course when the Teamsters honor our picket lines,
> that wouldn't hurt a bit.
> Be nice to keep our jobs from going to third world countries where tech
> professionals are even more exploited than here.
> But of course, all my technical professional colleagues will pooh-pooh
> the idea of a union. They always do. Think about this, a union for us
> could be like the bar associatio for lawyers or the AMA for doctors. We
> could impose stringent professional abilities, certifications, and
> requirements to ensure we are a professional, capable body of people. We
> could institute apprenticeships so we have  a supply of people who are
> more than paper MCSEs or CCNAs.
> I am very fortunate that I work in an enlightened company that pays more
> than lip service to standards and security. Management totally backs us
> up on secure and safe computing. No IM, no HTML mail, no user installed
> software. A budget for security and training. It is wonderfule.  It is
> also the first employer in my 15 years of IT experience that follows
> through on these things. But I remember the pain and anguish from
> before. If we are going to change our industry so that we can succeed at
> our jobs, we need a union. Period.
> Dan Sichel, Network Engineer
> Ponderosa Telephone Company
> (559) 868-6367
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter:

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