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From: bart2k at (
Subject: Professional Groups

Scratch the Union idea! I say you look toward a Professional Secret Society...I
hear they were all the rage in past power-player days :)

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:31:03 -0800 Daniel Sichel <>
>> It's time we as a professional group start talking and walking
>> adults (at least more than in the past), I think. Just playing
>> computers is fine, but not enough.
>>Agreed.  And believe me, I have spent many an hour trying to figure
>>how to approach the problem.  Unfortunately, every solution I can
>>up with involves educating the masses . . . many of whom don't
>want to 
>>be confused with facts . . .  ;>
>This is off topic but I couldn't help myself. What we need is a
>Why? Well right now, management generally buys the software that
>has the
>cutest infobabes, the best promise, or safe branding (Microsoft).
>If we
>had a union that negotiated a contract that paid us extra for fixing
>software failures or broken installs, so that the bottom line got
>by the crap these people sell, it would take about 5 minutes for
>priorities to change in purchasing decisions and for SLAs and tech
>support to be ratcheted up where they belong. 
>Speaking as a US citizen, if we were Teamsters and honored their
>lines think of the leverage we would have. Scab truck drivers are
>available, but imagine the chaos of scab sys admins or firewall
>administrators? And of course when the Teamsters honor our picket
>that wouldn't hurt a bit. 
>Be nice to keep our jobs from going to third world countries where
>professionals are even more exploited than here. 
>But of course, all my technical professional colleagues will pooh-
>the idea of a union. They always do. Think about this, a union for
>could be like the bar associatio for lawyers or the AMA for doctors.
>could impose stringent professional abilities, certifications, and
>requirements to ensure we are a professional, capable body of people.
>could institute apprenticeships so we have  a supply of people who
>more than paper MCSEs or CCNAs.
>I am very fortunate that I work in an enlightened company that pays
>than lip service to standards and security. Management totally backs
>up on secure and safe computing. No IM, no HTML mail, no user installed
>software. A budget for security and training. It is wonderfule.
> It is
>also the first employer in my 15 years of IT experience that follows
>through on these things. But I remember the pain and anguish from
>before. If we are going to change our industry so that we can succeed
>our jobs, we need a union. Period. 
>Dan Sichel, Network Engineer
>Ponderosa Telephone Company
>(559) 868-6367
>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.

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