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From: exibar at (Exibar)
Subject: MCSE training question

It's very interesting to see that those people without any certifications,
always say that certs are a waste of time, that a monkey can pass the exams
(all of them, doesn't matter which), blah blah blah

  A cert is just like a degree.  Not much different.  There are people with
PHD's that are total idiots and you wonder how they got their PHD, then
there are those PHD's that you just KNOW that they are on top of their game
and deserve those letters.  When an employer looks at a resume, he'll pay
closer attention to the candidate with those letters.  It's just a bar that
the person jumped over, he/she took the time out of their lives to attain
that degree or certification, they are worth a closer look.  The person
without those letters "might" know more about the given subject to to
experience, but that will come out in the interview.
   The same thing if you own your own Info-Security business.  Pretend you
know zero about computer security but you know you need a pen-test done to
show the holes in your network and help plug them.  If you have your choice
of hiring a firm that has CISSP's that will be performing your pen-test,
you'll look closer at them over a firm that has "security people" in it.
Those 5 little letters could mean getting the contract and eating a steak or
eating more Raman noodles for another week (don't get me wrong, I LOOOOVE
Raman noodles <grin>).

   If I'm being operated on, I want an MD operating on me, I don't want
someone that "can perform the operation" without passing the exams to get
the MD.....


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joel R. Helgeson" <>
To: "Curt Purdy" <>; <>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] MCSE training question

> Pretty much any Microsoft Certified Training Partner could teach your
> what they need to know to get the certificate.
> I recommend ExecuTrain as they were the first and have rigorous standards
> which they hold each of their trainers.
> Once your friend is certified, he'll get a logo that he can put into his
> resume' to spice it up... I always thought the default MCSE logo was a bit
> booring so I spiced it up.  Give it to your friend, or do whatever you
> with it.
> I'll attach it to this message (mcse.gif).
> Enjoy... 8o)
> Joel R. Helgeson
> Director of Networking & Security Services
> SymetriQ Corporation
> "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and
> be warm for the rest of his life."
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Curt Purdy" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 1:13 PM
> Subject: [Full-Disclosure] MCSE training question
> > Hello list,
> >
> > I have a friend who wants to take an MCSE bootcamp (I know, tried my
> > to
> > get him to switch to Novell Certified Linux Engineer, but he wouldn't
> > listen
> > ;)
> >
> > If anyone has had experience with one of these and would care to give me
> > their opinion of that company, I would appreciate the rec or unrec as
> > case may be.
> >
> > Information Security Engineer
> > DP Solutions
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >
> > If you spend more on coffee than on IT security, you will be hacked.
> > What's more, you deserve to be hacked.
> > -- White House cybersecurity adviser Richard Clarke
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter:
> >

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